The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/STARK Hardenberg - More $$ for You & More RESULTS for Your Clients

STARK Hardenberg - More $$ for You & More RESULTS for Your Clients

Friday, January 20, 2023

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people, gym, offer, money, coaching, results, working, create, programs, business, price, group, client, class, thought, pay, hours, kinds, week, started


  • What is the hardest lesson you both have learned as gym owners? - 0:16
  • ​Were you guys a bit scared when you went to that model? - 3:24
  • ​The shift from chasing the money to chasing the people - 13:03
  • ​How to offer more than just group classes in your gym - 17:29
  • ​What you are giving your people is an opportunity to commit and to invest in themselves - 21:54
  • ​The importance of owning who you are and who you want to be - 24:09
  • ​What keeps you in the game? - 28:52
  • ​The results speak for themselves now - 32:03
  • ​What advice would you give to someone who is thinking about starting a gym? - 37:11
  • ​How can people find the gym? - 42:19


Tyler 00:16
Hey, Bert Yvonne. Share with us the hardest lesson you've learned as a gym owner.

Yvonne 00:22
There's a couple of things. I think one of the most important ones is that, for us, it was really important to learn to stand for our values. And to be very clear on what we think our value is worth? Also money wise? Yeah, that definitely was a difficult lesson for us to learn, but a very important one, because by doing that, we could create financial sustainability. And of course, that's what you need to have as the motor. Yeah.

John Fairbanks 00:53
Understanding your value. Yeah, yeah. From a price point. Yeah, all so many gym owners are going to struggle with this idea. Because oftentimes, like there's these feelings of, kind of, like, you have to get you have to give or maybe like, people won't want to buy your thing or your things not worth. Price not worth that. Like, I would never buy something that expensive. So why would I ever charge someone that much money? Yeah. What was that process? Like? Like, how did you guys get? What is your pricing now? Like, what did that look like? When were you guys originally there? And how has that looked like as you've been changing?

Engbert-jan 01:34
Who I just picked the price of the gym or where I was training at that time? And they've asked 50 Euro, so I thought you asked the same. Let's go.

Tyler 01:49
Market research. We're good.

Engbert-jan 01:57
I've been up once. And when we changed our system and our old

Yvonne 02:06
fishing, of course, we

Engbert-jan 02:10
Well, the first time we thought it out and we're now a lot more expensive.

John Fairbanks 02:20
So you can't, you can't just make things more expensive. Right? So what did you do? To justify in your own mind that you're worth more money to charge?

Engbert-jan 02:31
Oh, that's a good one. We upped our prices, but we also upped our service we did we delivered our products, we add another one way of getting into our gym in the past that was I want to be a member How come in you're a member right now. Now we have to go through a certain process,

Yvonne 02:55
individual process before you can actually join the gym.

Engbert-jan 02:58
So it's four or five times one on one that costs a bit. So that also divides the people who want to spend some money and don't spend too much. And that it's not about the money spent but it's more like the value of your body. Yeah. And

Yvonne 03:21
Are you willing to invest in that or not? Yeah,

Tyler 03:24
Were you guys a bit scared when you went to that though? Model were you like, because normally we go we get here's what we get as we go. I want more people to come into my gym. I want to make it so easy for them to come into my gym. And when you describe it, like oh, I want more one on ones and I want it to be more expensive. And it sounds like it's harder for someone to get into your gym. That's scary in the beginning and it's not just being more expensive, but it's like this is how I want your journey to start as a client and were you guys scared or when did you realize that that would work? In 2018

Engbert-jan 03:59
When I met you in Austria Yeah, my eyes got more open for that because Greg had another way of approaching stuff. Yeah, so for me it was Oh wait, that's also a possibility because I was very afraid to ask more. And you always find some excuse because people are not going to pay that And in our piece of the country they are very they're not spending a lot of money.

Tyler 04:29
Yeah, well let's back up first off you guys are late you guys are in the Netherlands. And I was back and forth commuting there for about a year and a half. About a week of every week every month I didn't live there for about a year. So I would say cheap might stingy might maybe just be a cultural norm everywhere.

Yvonne 04:48
We are even worse. Yes. Okay.

Tyler 04:53
So you raise prices in a Dutch culture that is cheap for the Dutch. Yeah, that's that's a bold

Yvonne 05:00
We even took it a step further because from Spring this year, we are offering programs for like three months. And you can do it in a group in a group setting, or you can do it in person one on one. And it's a free monthly program. And the prices of that are like, I don't think there's any gym in our area, or somewhere close in our area that's asking those kind of prices and people are always shocked the first time when we share prices, they're like, What, again, if you look at the value for from that we offer in those kinds of programs. And if you also work it back to what people pay, if you paid by the hour, it's a normal price, it's not a very good price.

Tyler 05:40
It just makes sense for your business more than it does. Like, I'll just have to throw a number out there that if someone compares it out of context to the guy down the street, makes you look better to it. Once you start playing that game, things pick up a lot. Getting started. So say again, how did you guys end up getting started into into this into this process, you guys went through Ingrid held

Yvonne 06:06
protests. I think there's two things. One is basically a very simple reason. And we both learned from it. Yeah, that's a very clean, straightforward thing. And we were realizing that the way we were doing it now was not going to happen, it was not going to happen to get the money for both of us out of the gym. That's one of the reasons. And the other one is also that by changing our direction, we were more able to see the value that we are offering. And this is a totally different value than any other gym in our area. And by offering that kind of value and that kind of experience for people, we also are able to make the decision, we need to ask money for that. Because this is not just any kind of game or any kind of surface. It's just different. And it's special. And it's unique. And it's one of a kind for everybody who's joining us. So it's not just a group class that you're joining. You're joining much more than that.

John Fairbanks 07:06
How did you guys get to become gym owners? The liquids, what was that? Like? Were all of a sudden you're like, Yeah, gym ownership is the way for me.

Tyler 07:16
Down the street was making 50 bucks

Engbert-jan 07:26
I never thought about the money. I'm sometimes quite an impulsive guy. So a friend of mine invited me to go to CrossFit. One time, just a week before we had a trial class. I did something with my knee, I got injured. So I put it a few months out. And I was off and I was walking in the forest in June in 2012. I still remember. And I said to my wife that if this CrossFit thing is something I like, I'm going to start for myself. What? Yeah, some shiny. We're walking in the forest. I think that's a good idea. That's all.

Tyler 08:13
man of his word. I liked that.

Yvonne 08:16
Business Plan, got money from the bank and found a place to open up and opened up.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Engbert-jan 08:22
in like a year. Yeah, yeah, April, the next year, April in 2013. I opened up. So within a year, I was already in sports, like kickboxing, all types of MMA and all that sort of stuff. So I never did one class of CrossFit or something like that. So I went to the weekend course and Hey, Dan, you're a coach. Right? Let's go.

Tyler 08:52
That is funny. Do you know when I coached my first CrossFit class, it was the first day my gym had opened hands on coaching, but I never coached a group CrossFit class on the first day. And then I was like, oh, no, this is a whole lot. A lot is a big learning curve. Here. It is. That's funny. But it isn't an accessible business to get into. So I suppose you get in and you just kind of start doing and just start figuring things out when when does it get real?

Engbert-jan 09:22
And 2016. I did three years, like 40 hours a week CrossFit and 40 hours a week, the daytime job. So it was quite a lot of work. And at that point, we had paid off all our dues. We had enough money for like two years, only for my salary. So we thought let's dive in. So to the 16th. I stopped with my daytime job and went all out for it in my box at that moment.

Tyler 09:57
was like when you walk in On that day, like, the first day, you don't have to get up and go do the other thing. What's that feel like?

Engbert-jan 10:06
Well, I don't know. It wasn't that big of a thing for me, my ex wife at the time was very, very anxious for it. But for me, it was like, okay, that's the logical next step. That's the process. I never lost faith in that I could get a living out of it. I never lost faith in that we are not gonna get enough members or something like that. That never came to my mind. Actually.

Yvonne 10:43
So you had to get up early, you know? Yeah.

John Fairbanks 10:51
That was a thing. So, you had two years of earnings in the bank? Yeah. So you felt like you were kind of so you really had put it to where you could go all in. And, and what most folks would say is like, risk risk at all, and just only be a gym owner? How did your business change? You always knew you were going to be successful, right? You don't even allow thoughts of like, oh, this won't work. Like that's not allowed in your mind, which is awesome. But how did your mindset shift? Once you were all in 100%, mentally now no longer sharing? Like it's, I respect the idea of going 40 hours, one job and 40 hours, the other and doing that at the same time? Like I know what that's like?

Engbert-jan 11:42
Yeah. Joyful, right?

John Fairbanks 11:46
So you're all over the place, man, like your brain is everywhere. What was it like now that all of your mind was at the gym? How did the business start changing? Then?

Engbert-jan 11:56
I'd get more real because I could offer more classes. I could offer more if I could get more people in. So that was our first priority. I did never do a lot of stuff at Facebook with the we had a very show as socials were very shitty. My website was very shitty. It was like that, so I started with building up a new website. I didn't do it myself, because show shows and all that sort of stuff to left hands. So not my cup of tea, but I'll build a new site. We had a new system for logging in your

Yvonne 12:41
client management system.

Engbert-jan 12:42
Yes, client management system. And I jumped in with a company so they could offer me the stuff for socials that didn't work out. Much.

John Fairbanks 12:58
Talk about that. I think it's fair to talk about that a little bit. Because I think a lot of gym owners get

Tyler 13:03
the turn to that. Yeah, yeah.

Engbert-jan 13:06
Well, I paid a lot of money. And I got 00 results. And I made it, it was like that kind of money that I didn't have for two years. But a year and a half, may be a year for myself without earning something. So we paid a lot of money, and we're no results. And he told me it's a process, you have to give it a couple of weeks. And then it's a couple of months. After six months, no results, I thought, well, this is done with

Tyler 13:37
it. That is a piece that we see a lot though is that like and it's hard because like you we can't, we're coaches. And we're passionate about this. And we get into the business and we start working on this. And you can't master everything. And you can't always understand, if you're just not perfectly suited for that stuff. You can't do it yourself. It's hard because I want somebody to do this thing. Maybe it's not the right thing to do at all at that time. But the problem is you don't know how to do it or the order or the sequence. And so many people go to websites or social media. But really what you were chasing, you thought were more members, right? We wanted more matters. Yeah. But also that that isn't really what you wanted. What you wanted was more money. And that still is the thing. And what I like now is it seems like you went from that you kind of learned that lesson the hard way. Like I'm chasing complex things that I don't understand. And it can turn into bad money so fast. And then it turned to when you guys start charging more and revamping your services and things like that now all of a sudden you realize, oh, I make more money and I don't have to chase Chase members so intensely and every member you get now is worth so much more to you than it would have been had you got them then

Engbert-jan 14:44
It's a shift because it's not about money anymore. And it's still about the money. Don't get me wrong, we need money and we need everybody else. But for us it's not about the money now because when somebody's got to come And then we have a meeting, we have a conversation with it. And you had a guy, let Stein from the army.

Yvonne 15:07
Yeah, we also say sometimes we say no to people when the match is not there, we say no. Yeah. So for us, it's much more about finding the people that match with our fishing and match with our way that we do things and also to listen, want to learn and listen from us. That's, and I actually told the guy that and he was like, I told him, this is my requirement, if you're not willing to learn and listen from us, I'm sorry, but then you're not welcome. And he was like, in shock. He said, You're gonna say no, yeah, I'm gonna say no, because these are not the kind of people we want in, we want people in, that are willing to almost like be humble and learn about themselves and learn about movement, learn from others. And yeah, like that. And, then he was quite respectful of that. He was like, I can respect that. But then he also said, after a few days, I'm not going to come and join. And I am quite happy he didn't, because it simply doesn't work. So our focus now is much more on. Okay, what is deficient we have for Jim, what, what do we want to create with the gym? And what kind of people match with that?

Engbert-jan 16:15
And give the people their results, which is getting bigger and bigger for us, like losing weight? Or why do you want to lose some weight? What's unread, not only the weight loss, but I got a guy in coaching, personal coaching, now we stopped smoking. Yeah, all kinds of little, not little problems, but problems we attack in a certain way that works, we give them results. And in the end results are what people want, you're not going to allow as cheap as a global gym, and stay there for 50 years, and never get any results.

Yvonne 16:59
And I also think what is different is that we are offering results for health like like selling losing weight, or quit smoking or whatever, but physical health, physical health, but because we also did an education three years ago, more about personal development, we are also able to help people create results more in a mental way, like I had this girl in a personal program, and she really wanted to become more self confident or self assured. And be able to wear dresses and short trousers and stuff like that, or a bikini, you know, and, and go out and about and just be herself. And we use movement and coaching, getting results in these kinds of questions that people have. And it's muscle, it's much more than just movement in our group classes. It's much more than that.

John Fairbanks 17:55
It sounds like you also have a lot more than just a group right? Like group classes we ever imagined, you still run. But maybe talk about it because I like what I already know, right? I know what you guys offer. But folks listening or watching don't know the types of things that you offer in your gym. And it is unique because it's uniquely yours, right? You guys worked hard at making these offers making these programs yours. So maybe talk a little bit about it. I think a lot of folks may be stuck in that trap where they're trying to attract more members, plug them into the group classes. And it's just a simple, you know, easy gym math kind of way. And you all have really challenged that idea. Well, we

Yvonne 18:39
came to a point where we started to realize that by just offering pool classes, and having the desire to not have our gym bigger than 150 members, we will not eventually have the prices we are having now. And not everybody's still paying the full price because the old members are still paying the old price. But still, we will never really get proper money out of it for the bulk of us and get money for investments for new materials or new education or whatever, you know. So that was the moment we started to realize, okay, if we really want to make ourselves and make our business financially sustainable, we have to offer something else as well. And we came onto this path of creating results with people. We took an education for that as well as performance coaching. And we learned a lot about how we can coach people for creating results. And it took us some time but I mean, John and I discussed this two years ago as well. But it took us some time, but the solution appeared to be very simple. How can we offer our value in such a way that it integrates everything that we can? And for us it was a big eye opener that we get to offer these free months programs for people, either individually or either in a group setting where people just have a very clear way of working with them. It's two hours of physical training and one hour of mental coaching. And what we do is very simple. Basically, we make it clear with them. Where are you at now? Where do you want to go? What is the gap that is there? And how, what are we going to do? What are you going to do to create that or to fulfill that gap? And it's not just about actions, but it's more. So about Moodle, you have to be in order to do all the actions that are needed for you to get the result that you want. So these free months programs that we have started doing since spring, and we've had two groups. So far, we have had about seven or eight personal programs. And that's pretty cool to see what is happening there with results. And with people Yeah,

Engbert-jan 20:51
Actually, the training is the same, but the coaching is the golden nugget or something like that. You see more change in the people who are undergoing coaching. Even though the training is the same, they're more, they're getting better results, they're working harder, they're working harder, they're reaching their goal.

Yvonne 21:16
During the program, people get the opportunity to stay with us, of course, because we have a group class system. So that's that, that comes in handy in a way. Because we have this backup system where people can continue working out if they want to. And we have also decided that if people want to continue working out with us, they can still also get a bit of coaching like not one hour a week, but maybe one hour a month. So we have created a special membership for people who are like, Okay, I still want to continue with the physical exercise. But I also still want to continue with a bit of coaching. So that can help me to keep on track. So we have a special membership for that. Yeah, that's pretty clear, it works.

Tyler 21:54
What I really liked is that Jonathan talked about this in the past, but that you guys are giving his people an opportunity to commit and to invest in themselves. And that's the difference in I always look at those group classes as the minimum commitment and minimum investment that my client can make in themselves, you're gonna come in, and you're going to show up and get told what to do. And you're gonna be amongst other people, and you can get great results in group class if people are ready or if they're comfortable. Absolutely. But nobody could tell you that there's a that's the fastest track to the best results with the lowest risk, nobody can. And so when that's our sole offering, if that's the only thing we sell, it's like, Well, shit, I'm really hamstringing not just my ability to make money, but I can't let them invest at the level they want to invest in themselves. As someone who wants to really commit, I want 12 weeks, I want an intense thing and a real focus, I want to talk to you about it, I want to use my words to verbalize it and say these things out loud, and then commit to it and having a plan and action, that stuff just can't fail those clients, those clients is practically bulletproof, they would have to like, literally talk to you, and then train and then go home and just forget to eat and drink all month. A few of those clients too, but like, right, but truthfully, what you're giving them is the best opportunity at success. It's a way to really put them on the hook for it and let them choose the level of commitment they want to make to themselves. Otherwise what we're doing by offering that group fitness only is like, yeah, here's, here's the best you can do. And it's not, it's not even the best I could do for you if you don't present it to them in the way that you are. And it sounds to me like that's really changed the results you're getting. It's changed your business financially. And it's really made you guys confident in your product and confident when you talk to people when you were worried about 50 bucks, because that's what he's charging. That's when you started now you're like No, the results, the money, the things I do the things I do. Well, that's what you're here, and here's your offer, off you go. And it just makes me really, really, really excited that John had to jump off. He thinks he has a heart out here as well. Let me know when you guys have to leave. I'm going to jump to the John and I have about time for the last question.

John Fairbanks 24:09
No, you're good. Tyler. I wanted to. We all have a regular life that's around us. So that's where I know the one thing that I felt like Vaughn, you touched on this at the beginning. And you referenced right that guy that came in that was from the military. Yeah. And I think this was an important distinction where you guys have put together these really custom programs and allow people to invest in themselves. And I think you're having such incredible success because you all did a lot of work behind the scenes, what I often call, the boring or unsexy work that it was like, This is who we want to be. This is who I want to attract. And it was only until you all got really confident of what you wanted to be that you put together those programs and put together this program that then allowed, like, if the dude from the military that wasn't a good fit got plugged into this program. I don't know, like, I don't know, like how much never would have worked, no and so but you, you've really fully proved your process by owning who you are, who you want to be, who your tribe is, and then providing that value. And then man, when you mash those two together, you just continue to crush like all the things that are around you. So,

Yvonne 25:38
and it's still hard work, because those people don't come in just by themselves. You know, sometimes it happens. I mean, people find us to have a proper website now. So people are more easily seduced to contact us by the website we have now than we had two years ago, our story is much clearer, our vision is much more clear. So the idea, this shows how it helps. But it's not the magic trick, and also the social media stuff. It's not magic. That's not where the magic happens. You can post as much stuff as you want. This is never ever going to make people think, yeah, I might, I might go there. And maybe that could be good for me. Now, what you need to do is invest in talking to people, create conversations, and in those conversations, make people aware of where they are at now, what is not working in that and what I would like to create, and what is missing, and what is missing issues. And what is not working in that is usually themselves. Because people tell me that everybody knows how to lose weight. In general, it's not that difficult, in general how to lose weight, but the fix that is not working in how to lose weight, if you use yourself, it's you that does not do what is what needs to be done. And it's not the person who needs to do it that is capable of doing what he needs to do in order to lose weight. This is what we make people aware of in our introductory conversations when we meet people for the first time. And then we can also make it very clear to people, okay, but if this is not working, then maybe you need something else, maybe you need coaching, because this can make a difference for you. And some

Engbert-jan 27:07
people are what Tyler said, this is the lowest investment you can do yourself. We all always tell people, you got 180 68 hours in a week, two hours of training, you got 166 hours left, I don't think those two hours are getting the results you want. If you're not doing other stuff and you want 66 hours. That's simple math. But it works. So when we say the coaching is for more than 66 hours to survive, and to get your results in the gym. And the folks in the gym are on their results. We get great results, we get the best results ever in two hours of rocking out. Because there are more folks and yes, they have trained more than two hours on their own or in our group classes or that sort of stuff. But in this program there are two hours of training, one hour coaching and the hour of coaching is providing you the shield for surviving the one of 66 hours that's left in a week.

John Fairbanks 28:26
Yeah. And you're it's living proof of something that I've heard as well, of not only the value you guys are bringing but the fact is, is that people that pay more pay more attention.

Yvonne 28:39
That's why we also ask people to pay the money upfront. Exactly. Program, you pay up the whole us out all amount of money you paid upfront, also, bam, yeah, the whole shebang because it creates commitment. It's as simple as that.

Tyler 28:52
You don't want if you're working with uncommitted people, you don't get results. And I think that'll maybe segue me kind of into the next question is like, what keeps you in the game?

Engbert-jan 29:01
We love what we do. We really love what we do.

Yvonne 29:04
If I work, especially the personal programs, a one on one program, I seem to get all kinds of women so mouse. Yes, you get the blocks. Apparently this is how it works. But I asked the women to write their daily wins to me every day I get a picture from what I write in a notebook, what are your daily wins, and after some time, it becomes the weekly wins or whatever you know, but reading those wins and reading the successes that people are creating, and it ain't even. I mean, the girl will never ever dare to wear shorts because he was convinced he was too thick for it, too ugly for it. And now she's just doing it every single time she's working out in our gym and she's totally confident with it. Her relationship with her husband has become so much better. A relationship with a family has become so much better and quality of life has definitely improved. These kinds of results that people create themselves in and reading about her learning about her hearing about that. Yeah, that makes it all worth it. Yeah.

John Fairbanks 30:07
Yeah. That's awesome. And that's what's the core, right? That's your foundation. So through this whole thing is all these other intangible pieces that are making people invest more, and you're able to dribble a little bit more, make more money and you're able to provide more value, all those things are really important. But like your core of why you guys do what you do is because you just love it.

Yvonne 30:32
Yeah. It's the best thing in the world to see people doing the things they never expected them to happen or never expected that they would be able to do it. And then in the end, they do it, it gets the best.

Engbert-jan 30:45
Out of themselves. Yeah,

Tyler 30:46
Yes, this, this, this strategy change that you guys have gone through as far as how you package and present and the programs that you guys offer, what I think I want to reiterate is that you've done such a good job now. Because the reason what keeps you in the game and what got you into this is, you're now able to do that better. Like you're now literally because of these programs and allowing them to invest more in themselves in the way you've got things packaged, you're able to deliver results to people at a higher rate, you'll have a higher success rate with those people and they will get better results. And they get them faster, and they're really aligned with it. They're not spending less time adrift. And I think that having done that, and also doing it in a way where you know that it rewards you financially for doing it. This is every system that I try to make changes to in a business, I don't do anything linear, like here's one, it gets you this more, I could never do that. And what you've done is created this feedback loop of success. And anytime we drive success going forward in our gym or a business, it needs to either drive some of those warm, fuzzy positive feelings or it needs to also give me a result, it can't just extract more money from people, you didn't just raise prices, you repackage your offers and you you're you're charging more, you're offering just opportunities to invest more. And now, I just really, really love hearing these stories because the results speak for themselves as you win now, because you're getting the money was never your reason. But now it's there. And you're getting the thing that you wanted to do in abundance now. And it's, it's really, really, really makes me happy hearing stories like that, especially because we haven't. I haven't seen you guys in a couple of years either. So having heard this story of the gym, and its humble beginnings years ago. And now seeing you guys sit here very confidently, and like next level package offerings and like really a next level service and not a bat of the eyes that like now you can't come here, if you don't want to do this, like like that's, that's a big difference from what a lot of people get into when they open a gym, which is I need every person that walks into the door to sign up right now and get their freaking get from them is a monthly break, which you know what I mean, we're not even letting them pre pay for anything. So it's like the best effort you do on selling your gym, I might get like 150 bucks today. And then and then you're like, just hope that they stay for a year. Those are, that's a tough game to play. And I'm really glad to see you guys transcend that game. And now you're just doing your thing your way. And the sky becomes the limit once you start doing business on those terms.

Yvonne 33:17
And also what is for us was a surprise, not not maybe unexpected, but still a surprise is that by being very clear about our vision and what we want to create with people, we also made it very clear for us for ourselves what people match with that and what people don't match with that. And truth be told, when we mainly died, when we decided to change our direction, of course, a lot of people left. So at that time, we were really like, Okay, this is gonna be interesting, you know, but the people that stayed and the people that are coming in now and have come came after our big change of direction, you know, those people are committed those people understand our vision, they're not worried about who's the fastest, Who's the strongest, who's the, you know, all these kinds of stuff. But people are, the best thing I heard from one of our members was, I'm not here to compete with anybody. I'm only here to compete with myself, I have to win for myself, every single time I come here, I'm here for me, and I'm here to do what I need to do in order to become better. And that for me was like, Yeah, you get the point, you get what we want. You don't want people to compare themselves with anybody who's there. We want people to be there and do what I need to do in order to become better themselves. And by being very clear about that. We have a really great group of people now. And it's and I mean, sometimes I talk to one of those marketing specialists and they're talking about how we can offer all kinds of leads for you and you can you can, we can give you the leads and you can follow them up and all that kind of stuff. What is your target group? What is the main group that you have in your team? age wise? We don't have that. Honestly, we don't have to because our youngest is five and is also 75. And everything in between is there and it's not mainly 40 years old. There are many, this age, we really have everything in between. And it's so cool because they're all working out together and not the kids and the teenagers, but she'll be from 16 to 75. They're all working out together, and everybody's doing their thing on their own level. And people are having fun while they're doing it. And I think that's the best thing.

John Fairbanks 35:29
You guys really? Early on, you started at 50. Right? 50 euros a month. Yeah. And you were very much I'm sure stuck in the same kind of rat race that a lot of folks find themselves in, which is you're really just making yourselves very comparable to the other gym down the street. Yeah.

Engbert-jan 35:49
Well, even 50 euros is not a lot of money. I was still at that time. And if I was asking now, if it's two years, I will still be the most expensive gym in this town.

John Fairbanks 36:02
Yeah. Okay. So about that. But even then, but so I guess that's a good point of where, like even talking about price, but early on, I think a lot of folks are also just sitting in a spot of, well, we kind of just offer the same thing that they offer over there. And then it sounds like you guys really got confident of what you wanted to do. It stopped being comparable. Yeah, people can't walk into your gym and say, Oh, well, you're just like them over there. No, no, no, that'd be impossible.

Yvonne 36:34
And every time we talk to people, people understand that. And so people don't don't want to go with that, because it's either too expensive for them, or they don't want to make that kind of investment for their body. And that's totally fine and totally cool as well. Again, it's not a match for the people who are willing to invest in them, in their health and to get a creative body that is strong. Also, when you're still 70 years old. Those are the kinds of people that match our ideas. And that yeah, that works.

Engbert-jan 36:59
Yeah, that works for us. Yeah.

Tyler 37:03
That's awesome. I love that. Tyler All right, guys, we're on to the final question. Lightning round got one question. I would like as if you could give, if you give one piece of advice to somebody who's thinking about following your footsteps, or thinking about starting a gym, or we're just headed down this path, a little bit of coaching in the gym ownership, you get one piece of advice, what would it be? Oh,

Yvonne 37:29
The question, right. And before we prepare that one, actually. We said a few things. One is the one we started with to stand for your value. And don't. I mean, I was talking to a guy who lives in a town which is like, an hour away from here. He's also thinking about introducing these kinds of programs into his own game. And yesterday, he sent me this overview like I'm gonna, when I'm going to offer it for the first time, I'm gonna ask the group people for free months for 150 euros, and we asked almost three times as much. And I'm like, okay, 450 euros. How does that work back in on our, on our base? How much do you get paid by the hour? And for everybody who's there? And he worked it out. And he came back to me, it's like 10 out of 10 euros an hour or so. And I'm gonna starve this, why do you think you're your value, your value is 10 euros an hour, and he was like, I mean, and also, this is a story Julian wants to tell me and that stayed in my head very clear. If you have a gym, and there's a gym like two kilometers away from the gym, it's in exactly the same gym. They do everything in exactly the same way. Principles, methods, workout coaching everything in the same way. And one gym is asking 50 euros and the other one is asking, say 150 euros, everybody will think the one from 150 euros offers better quality. Everyone will think that that for me was also a huge eye opener. Because if something is more expensive, people feel that it has more quality. And I mean, I know we have that kind of quality as well, that people will feel that as well. So

Tyler 39:11
You can deliver higher quality when you're getting paid more. Like if money's tight at home and you're like a man or shut off the heat. Yeah, you're gonna not be engaged in coaching people. If a coach comes in and he's like, doing really, really just feels financially taken care of and is enthusiastic and like, money is great doing the thing that you love. You can do an awesome job coaching when your head's in that space.

Engbert-jan 39:38
And the question we got asked by you is you know the height advice. Create your, in your head, create the gym in your head, what you want, and not in a month. wasn't two months, but in five years, six years, what's your i Whatever? What's your ideal gym? What does it look like?

Yvonne 40:08
What did people tell one another? What is the atmosphere? Like? What? How does it look material wise or space wise? That kind of stuff? What is happening in the gym? For us, it was big, that was one of the first things we did. And it helped us a lot in it, we did it separately one from one another because we thought, okay, if we're going to do it together, it's going to be like a bit of a

Tyler 40:33
Compromise. Yeah.

Engbert-jan 40:36
Okay, you're right.

Yvonne 40:39
And I also was really curious when he was gonna write it down. So that also helped us a lot by just writing down. Okay, what if you enter the gym? If you step over the doorstep? What do you see happening? What are the people talking about? What's the smell, what's the smell, all these kinds of things that helped us a lot by creatively writing down our sort of perfect, ideal, most beautiful gym ever. And truth be told, we are getting there, slowly, but gradually we are getting there. And because creating that very clear vision, also makes it very clear for you what you need to do in order to get there.

Tyler 41:15
Yeah, that's just like exactly what you do with your clients. Yeah, yeah, true, right. Yeah, yeah.

John Fairbanks 41:22
You always had the compass, you always have your, your blueprint, your roadmap, your compass, whatever, that when things start getting a little crazy. And you may get pulled over here. You can always come back to be like, This is what we wanted. But it's

Yvonne 41:37
Also funny how the universe works with that because like, we have this wherever our gym. And in our gym, we have this attic. And we're not using the attic for anything at the moment when we need proper group coaching sprays now, because we are doing groups now. And we have one hour a week with a group where we do coaching. So okay, let's make this attic into a proper group coaching space. So we tell this to people. And then the next week, we get over all kinds of furniture for free, which is perfect for the group coaching space. Yeah. Perfect. It's decorated. Also how it worked, you know, if you are clear about what you want, and you tell people about what you want, people will support you and things will just happen somehow, some way. Yeah,

Tyler 42:19
I love it. Well, guys, how can people find you? How can people find the gym? Guys,

Yvonne 42:26
Start having And you can send email to Yvonne or info at start automatic dogs canal.

Tyler 42:33
All right, I like it, guys. Thanks a lot. It was a really tremendous conversation. I've really, really enjoyed seeing your guys' trajectory since the time that we first met and going from truly passionate coaches. Like really, really the thing that we were we met on was trying to become better coaches and connect to people better and do things differently and better than anyone else to take that. And then make sure that it makes you money for being better. And being different is that that's the thing that warms John and I fired up about this stuff in this project. So I really appreciate you guys sharing your story. It's been really, really a joy seeing you guys. And I'm really stoked for what the future holds. And

Engbert-jan 43:15
We already know about

Yvonne 43:19
The opportunity for sharing our story. Thank you.

Tyler 43:21
Yes, absolutely. Everybody else who goes to hack your you can follow me at Tyler reference. So on Instagram, you can follow the podcast at the gym owners podcast. John, you want to brief them on the group?

John Fairbanks 43:33
Yeah, if you are, if you're watching this, you're already in the Facebook group. But if you're hearing this, you need to get into the Facebook group. Go on Facebook, go to hack your go to our Go go into our link tree

Tyler 43:45

Academy in the descriptions that all roads lead to the Facebook group. So that's where we'll have experts and Yvonne they're all going to be there and so everybody can kind of throw questions your way they can talk about this process. We want to make sure we build a real community here of people trying to do this thing the real right way. Yeah, yeah, that's thank you for sharing and we'll see you guys soon. Thanks, everybody.

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