The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/The #1 Pricing Mistake We See with Coaches and Gym Owners...

The #1 Pricing Mistake We See with Coaches and Gym Owners...

Friday, January 20, 2023

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coach, people, sessions, clients, selling, week, talking, gym, money, business, price, charge, buy, podcast, proposition, offer, tyler, service, shit, certifications


  • Why you have to break the mindset of “I don’t want to charge more” - 0:01
  • ​What you are not selling - 4:17
  • ​Why you need to remove the transactional nature from your business - 11:26
  • ​Why you have to be willing to step back and look at your business - 14:34
  • ​The importance of providing an option that allows you to make more money - 18:07
  • ​Allowing your people to wander out into the wilderness all on their own - 21:55
  • ​What happens when you don’t follow-up with your clients - 27:23
  • ​Why you have to know what’s going on inside your business - 31:28
  • ​How do we know what level of success we need to achieve before we can start taking action? 36:47


Tyler 00:01

Welcome back to the podcast guys. This is the gym owners podcast. I'm your host as always Tyler, my co host over there, John. Say hi

John Fairbanks 00:11

Hi everybody, you can find me over on Instagram at Jay banks FL

Tyler 00:16

you'll find me on Instagram at Tyler effing stone should we drop like all the stuff in the beginning for everybody? John, let's do it. So before we tune out at the end, after we give you all this value, make sure you go to community dot hacker There you can find the group of gym owners and people who are doing a lot of the stuff and experimenting that we've been tinkering with, here on the podcast with our business consulting staff, and with gym hacking University. And you can get a sense of what's going on to get a get in a group of like minded gym members, or of gym owners in that same same Facebook group. You can follow the podcast officially at the gym owners podcast on Instagram, and make sure you leave us a five star review on Spotify, Apple, wherever I think Spotify once you do reviews now we're going to jump right into something that we noticed we had a conversation and a little webinar presentation we put together and I was talking to a friend of ours who was a gym owner and a coach. And he had mentioned something about how we're talking about pricing between one region and another. And one of the things we had noted was, you know, he was kind of surprised that people in one region were able to charge, you know, X amount, and that that was significantly more than you know that he was used to being able to charge you thought, wow, it's great that people actually pay for that. If I tried to do that here, I'm afraid that people are just gonna be like, no, no. And it brought to my attention. A very important thing I think that gym owners and coaches need to know and need to understand is that you're putting potential client is not interested in all at all, and how much you know, or how much classes you've gone through or what your qualifications are, truthfully how long you've even been coaching, they just, they just don't care, and it has almost no effect on what you can charge. And I think it's super important for people to understand this. And a good case study here is we have a coach who we kind of work with directly who has less than 20 hours of total coaching that has ever done less than 20 total hours of coaching. And we just presented price points like you should with a business, which is like oh, what is it going to cost? How much do you need in order to do this work? How much time do you want? How much do you want to make? What's it all about? So we didn't bake in this thing that was based on the fact that we didn't set pricing based just on what we think people would pay, we did it as a whole as a business. And so she goes to look through and when I showed him the pricing, he was like, geez, that's almost double what I'm able to charge here. I said, Well, now it's not because you guys, you have to break this thing, that is this mindset that teaches you that you're trading time for money. And when you find out that somebody else charges what boils down to $80 a session for one-on -one coaching, that doesn't mean that they're worth $80 An hour and you're only worth 40 That means they had the balls to ask first off. Secondly, it also means that maybe they're not presenting their services as an exchange for time and money. And that's why they're able to get more money out of their time. And that's the biggest takeaway I want you guys to get from this episode here is to stop trading your time for money, stop. If you're someone's buying one on ones that you are, they're not buying five, one on one sessions from you. That sucks all that proposition sucks. Nobody wants that, even people that want to do one on one from you. They don't want that to be what they're buying. I want what 10 one on one sessions gets me and what does that get me? How much closer does that get me to my goals? What other things that are in my way that get out of the way and that is like learning to communicate. That type of language is going to be the key between you being able to it's not just about charging more again, this is about being able to offer more and being able to do more.

John Fairbanks 04:17

Yeah, and he hid it from others. It's you're not selling, it's a little bit like trying to sell a vacation to Hawaii and you're gonna go over how, what the flights gonna be like, where their bags are gonna go on the flight, how it's gonna feel like there had their heads, hands pressed against the side of their head as high as they can for 11 hours to get there. Like, in no way would that sell anyone anything? And that's going to be like, well, it's going to be an 11 hour flight. It's like hell no, somebody's ever selling that package is going to be like, you're gonna get laid. There's going to be volcanoes. There's gonna be sand. It may go in the water, but the sharks like it so you're gonna go over all the things that would be awesome of like, what are you looking forward to most in a vacation like what are you most excited about Hawaii? Well, guess what? Whatever the fuck they're gonna say it's gonna be all those things. Yeah, all those things are gonna be what you're selling. But I'm talking about it's so deep though, like it's we're so conditioned from the, how many members are in your gym? How long have you been coaching?

Tyler 05:15

How much do you charge per month? How much do you charge for one on one session per hour? Yeah, it's what if things were what if we broke this mindset of you completely by saying you never ever sell a one on one session? How about that? How about that doesn't exist? You never sell one because no one ever should be buying one. Because the problem is, you know how hard it is to get value out of one one on one session? If you're speaking to a client and the client, like, what am I? What do I get at the end of this one on one session? And what's the difference between your $100, and someone else's $40 one on one session? Well, that's right, that's becoming tricky. Because buy in as coaches as business owners, as salespeople, if you let that be the discussion, you're always going to be under delivering, always, because at the end of an hour, you can't deliver anything other what should just be good work, which is why you should be packaging these things together, they should be bundled into a dozen sessions or two a week, or however you go ahead and do it. But they should be about the clients. desired outcome, you're selling transformations, you're selling, fitness, you're selling progress, you are not selling two hours of your time per week,

John Fairbanks 06:26

because the progress of those results, it's incomparable. So the fact is, is that if you really drill down, if you're just going to sell one on one sessions, or you're going to sell a punch card, or you're going to sell a gym membership that has 10 sessions, or whatever it is, you're allowing, you're opening yourself up to be comparing apples to apples with a gym that's down the street. The fact is the gym that I belong to is just a flat membership. All they have is membership and unlimited classes. And these are all the things that they have available. Now they're on my list of somebody to talk to, and being like, tell me why you guys price it this way. But it allows me to now look at well, I pay them X amount of money per month, allows me to now look at every other gym and say, Well, what do they have? And what's their price per month because there's nothing else that ties me directly to their, you know what I mean? There's nothing to it. The second you start having your pricing and programs and offerings and everything that's tied to a client's result, what they want to achieve, and you stack so much that's in there that helps them achieve that thing. It's impossible to compare that now you're not setting a price. Now you have those

Tyler 07:40

results. Well. And that's also what's even more important. So when somebody looks at the pricing that we had presented with one of our new coaches going through the stuff, it's like, well, she's able to charge so much, are you just asking for more and saying no. So matter of fact, the math you're doing is just dividing by total number one on one sessions and ignoring the other value stuff that we're delivering. And some of the other value stuff that we're delivering is some nutrition accountability. Some of the value stuff we're delivering is one weekly at home workout per week, right? So this actually saves them if they're not gonna do it in person, we can give them a general activity. They're always so there's always more baked into it when you're having the conversation. When you're having the right conversation. Like it's, it's a real no brainer, because these people don't look at this and think, Oh, well, this, we just divide this by the number of one on one sessions. And that's how this is comparable. All of the language in this proposition is your transition, your transformation over the next 12 weeks, your food habits, your accountability, you know, we want to give you body analytics that we do before and after full body scans and stuff so we can test and prove our progress. And so I think that this is, now that it becomes a thing, when it has a one big price in it with a comma in the middle of it, you know what I mean? Instead of just some silly $50 number that they get basically fleeced for twice a week, constantly, forever. Right? Again, we've talked about the endless relationship, why selling one on ones sucks, if you're just selling slots per week, is that it's an endless relationship. And there never is, what do we want to get done? moment, right. And so having a built in like this, I think makes it so every person comes into their body and they are focused, which now gives them a better chance of success than they would be if you just did a better job coaching on the floor truthfully. And so I think that this is the mindset shift that I think everybody has to have. We went through the same types of stuff as you know, when I was an old service repair guy, when I would show up to somebody's house and something was wrong. You know, if they just think that what I'm doing is a quote, just changing a part that completely diminishes the entire way that They're thinking about the service that they're getting. And they don't understand that the service that you're getting when I arrive and quote, just fix a part is that when I arrive, what I did was I have every goddamn part that it's going to take to fix your piece of equipment and every other piece of equipment, all that financial investment it takes to keep that thing on me at all times, you know, to be able to be in a position to have a guy available, all that takes money, by the way to have employees that can do that and are nice and personable and weren't sloppy and messy and aren't going to crush your toilet and track in your house like this is this is overall there's that service is what we're talking about. And we try to compare ourselves against the people that are just doing the most basic stuff, it becomes very easy. Now, you know, these guys show up, these guys are going to be clean. They don't talk about not just changing parts, they're worried about giving me choices and giving me this. I got to pick what I how I handled the repair, you know, the client gets to choose, or what do I go with here? And it's all done about services never in there is about, well, how many hours am I going to spend doing this. And if it takes two, it costs you this? If it takes four, now you have to remove that language from your business completely. And I think you have to take the good with the bad. Let's find a way to offer more, how can we do more for the people and present them with more and price it in a way that makes it worth doing? Yeah.

John Fairbanks 11:26

Yeah, we had a good we've, we've talked about this before, I think and one of the things that really stuck out to me was when I was trying to get folks to help us with our back deck. Yeah, the same concept where I had reached out to a number of dudes, and at the end of the day, it's just somebody that knows, this is going to take the time to sand it, and then be able to seal it with lots of folks that can do that. And the reality was the dues that I chose were the most expensive option, at least that I had talked to, but it was because of how quick they responded. The fact that he gave me a list of options that were available, and then where it was able to work with me is where I'm like, Well, I don't know if I want this, this piece or this piece or whatever. It's like, No, it's no problem. Like, we'll do this and this and this. And, and it gave me that guarantee, like we gave me a guarantee. Like there were so many pieces that were tied to it, that it was just a no brainer, it didn't matter no longer was now a transactional decision. It was like, I feel safer. And I feel confident that having you come do this work with me that it's going to be done, it's going to be done right. And I'm going to feel good about this, even though I spent a little bit extra money than I anticipated.

Tyler 12:37

Plus, you're in any case, as a consumer, and as a business owner, we need to communicate the way our clients want to be communicated to. And so talking to them about our own expertise, or trying to justify your pricing. Because you know, I've been coaching for a really long time or because I know this or I have these two certifications and these two other ones. And that does you no good. There's not a thing that you could say, in my opinion, as a coach, that will make somebody value you more, I don't think there's anything that you can say about your education, I don't think I just don't think it matters, I think you can say you coach Olympia, Olympia, and Olympic athletes, I think you could say you coached frickin anybody. I think professional athletes are regular people, all the transformations also, none of it means anything to them in regards to how much they're willing to pay for it until you can connect your verbiage to the things that they actually want to experience. And if that connects with them, and they trust that you know, this person is going to help me get rid of the 30 pounds that I want to lose. And it doesn't have anything to do with them being in love with your training methodology, quit selling your training methodology, quit selling your own certifications that you've taken, because they're not buying them. They want to know you and what you can do for them. So removing that transactional nature and removing the just trying to puff up our chest and flex our expertise does nothing. I mean, nothing good for you.

John Fairbanks 14:09

I'd be willing to say that the only people that are continuing the feeling that what university you go to the certifications that you have, how many degrees you have, the only people that are continuing to perpetuate that that somehow is important or matters are the people that have made the same mistake and went and got went and did those things. Yeah. If I got a master's degree, it's well everyone needs to have a master's degree. Well, why? Well because and I can list off whatever it is but all it does is make me feel better about having done that. Anyway, folks that give a shit about the certifications that you now have are probably the folks that are selling you the goddamn certifications. Yes, you have to be willing to kind of step back and look at it and be like alright, this matters, it ties so much back to what we're always talking about, which is the idea of like, is this coach speaking? Or is this meeting your clients where they are and speaking their language specifically?

Tyler 15:11

Yeah. And for and for you, as a coach out there, if you're listening what you need to do, then you can charge more, you can charge more, but you should just be doing more and then baking that into the price, in my opinion, you should not and not even doing more, by the way is offering a better service. And this was the piece we touched on at the last minute. And maybe all, you know, we're going to this a little bit more in depth is that the reason we want you to be doing this stuff, is because it makes you better at your job. The reason for coming up with a stack offer isn't so you can stack five upsells on top of your main offer. Now, that is part of it. Of course, having upsell opportunities is better than not. But the reason that you want to make sure that you have these opportunities is so that it makes you think and act and make your business products take the shape of a business and a person that is trying to do the best for their clients. And so trying to fill in as many gaps and as many of the perceived gaps that they need filled in whatever it's in whatever their journey is, that's our job as a coach. So by wanting to make sure that we're communicating this way, it forces you to be better. As a coach, it forces it.

John Fairbanks 16:18

You have to be really careful, though, so that you don't make this huge mistake. And within the fitness industry, right? We know the mistake is fitness is one of those long term things, somebody's gonna work out, they want to be able to do it, they can get healthier, they can get stronger, they can do whatever. And we've always talked about how there's nuance, especially if you get enough coaches together, that are worth their salt, and aren't pieces of shit. When they have those conversations, it's like weight loss is the byproduct, like weight loss is it can be where we want to be able to get together and you're gonna have a community and you're going to be consistent. And if you're consistently doing all these good things, you'll lose weight, you'll get healthier. But we all know like, if the only goal is to lose weight, or to get a six pack, like till the wheels fucking come off and you're willing to do whatever like, we ditches, like, I guarantee you, we get somebody a six, I can get you a six pack. Yeah, like you're gonna be on death's doorstep. But God Damn, you're gonna look the best that you've ever looked in your entire life. And it's true that the goal is that truly what the goal is, is to be on death's doorstep and to be holed or bleed dehydrated, and we'll get you a little bit more liquid courage that can come in and help you be able to get that much stronger, faster. Or, like what's the true intention? And that same example for me is the example of when someone looks at and says, Well, all you're doing is you're just trying to add more shit to make it more expensive, because you just want to raise your prices. And it's, you're, you're missing it, you're missing it in the same way of chasing a six pack until the wheels come off. That's the same idea of like, oh, so just make it more expensive. Real brilliant, folks. Yes. Like, no, no, no step back. It's, you gave a great example. You've talked about it multiple times, when you started training at the MMA gym, you only had an option to just buy their membership. And then you went so you spent X amount of money. And then you spent a couple 1000 more dollars, not with the guy that's at the MMA gym? Because there weren't options available for you to drop that money with him. Yeah. And so what we want to do is, okay, so is that is that fair that like, it's, is it fair to say, then for the MMA guy, it's a it would probably be good for all the things that people typically will go by elsewhere, provide an option that allows you to be able to make that money and then provide those services to your people.

Tyler 18:58

And even if those are things that people have a need for, sometimes it is about scratching a psychological itch. And that's okay, too. And this is where I fall in with supplements and things like this, guys, if you're not willing, like if you take any sort of supplement if you take anything and yeah, a lot of fitness people have strong opinions. Usually regarding supplements, some are great, some are shit, you got to tread lightly, whatever, well then it's your job as a fitness professional to help your clients wade through all that nonsense. Okay, so you have a bunch of opinions, which is don't take any supplements. Well, except I do like this one protein and I do like that. I mean, creatine, nobody can talk shit about creatine. So we have been doing that since. So everybody boils it down to what they really have is still like four to six supplements that they would recommend in brands that they would recommend to their clients, at the very least, that they take it instead of the bullshit that they're gonna go take from somebody else and when they don't ask you, so maybe we make sure that they can scratch that itch and have it not set them back. I think the same way about challenges and things like this is I don't Like challenges necessarily like nutrition challenges as a way to just be the way that you teach nutrition. However, people like getting momentum and investing in a thing. And so it can have a food challenge, of course, you can have a food challenge because you get the community involved in it and you get people, there's almost like third party accountability that you don't have to do. And I think there is value in a nutrition challenge. But what can you do to make sure that it is ethically better than the others so that it isn't just alternative burn stuff that isn't short sighted or, you know, trading? Trading, long term health for short term progress isn't the way you want to be doing it either. But you can do all of that stuff. If we're trying to do better and trying to be more not just sitting back going, Well, fuck, I just, I can't charge more for what I'm already doing well then quit already quit doing what you're doing that and that was the most, I think that's what like, the most important thing is like, if what you're doing right now you can't charge more than $50 an hour for well, then maybe just charge $50 an hour for that, and add some other stuff that you can do better or more efficiently, or that don't cost you as much time or that you can scale or that you can find someone else to do for you. You know, what do you do? What do your people want and eat? What do they want to get? What's in the way of getting them there? What can you put in front of them to help them like this is not that hard?

John Fairbanks 21:25

No, because you just have to be willing to ask, you just have to be willing to ask them because they will tell you. And then you have to be, you say, like it's not that hard. But you have to be willing to kind of check yourself and check that ego or check whatever it is that's there that sits that just says like, it's, I don't want to please find people, I don't want to screw them over. I don't want to charge more than I'm worth or whatever those things are. And you have to start looking at it in a different way. You said a phrase a minute ago where it was like you people are going to do these things. They're gonna go find supplements, they're gonna go find equipment, they're gonna buy sport, they're gonna buy athletic clothes, they're gonna buy whatever, right, they're

Tyler 22:10

gonna buy third party programming from some idiot on Instagram, they're gonna do all this stuff.

John Fairbanks 22:15

Yeah. So you choosing not to participate in that is you saying out loud to your people through your actions that you're not willing to, like you said, have your finger on the pulse, be able to do quality control, you're literally allowing these little babies to wander out into the wilderness all on their own, and they are going to get screwed. Because anyone that's finally excited about doing it, they're going to go and they're going to make a mistake for sure. I don't know what mitts that you bought. And I don't know what pads that you bought, like I don't. But I know for sure. The folks that probably could have given you a solid recommendation are probably the people that have owned the goddamn gym for X amount of time. But guess who didn't provide you an option of being like, Hey, let us give you some expertise. And here's some great brands that we trust, they stay away from these ones, they're kind of knock offs and whatever, you don't get that. So now you get to go wait through that on your own. And it's a total missed opportunity. And it is at the end of the day, it's almost like you're just choosing not to provide more value for your people because of just a weird construct that you built up in your head that somehow like I don't know, I'm above that.

Tyler 23:35

Yeah. And here's the thing, there are a lot of wolves in this industry. And there's a lot of there's, there's a lot where like, you can't just send these people out there to peruse the internet, and figure out what they should do for all the other aspects of fitness outside of their coaching sessions. This is where it's super important as a coach, right? So I want to explain this a little better. So you have your one hour sessions, right? People come in, and they can buy a one hour session. And that's great. Like, it really is great. And that's what they're there for. That's the thing that they need, they need the motivation, they need the push, they could come and say I just I'd like to do some work like perfect, you give them all of that stuff. But then you shuffle them off and say I will see you in two days. Right if you're only selling coaching by the hour. That's it right? And of course yeah, maybe there's some correspondence in between, but anything that's going on in that back and forth in between those sessions that involves nutrition or food, if they actually had invested in the right to have those conversations with you, meaning I am also coaching you nutritionally over the course of the next 12 weeks. I am purposely here to hold you accountable for those things. I am very purposeful to wake up and check your check in the morning like did you get enough sleep last night? What do we need to do next week like somebody holding their feet to the fire? If not, What they're doing is they're coming and they're training with you. And they had a lot of fun, it was fired up and their body feels different. And they take all that enthusiasm and they go to the fucking internet. And as soon as they look in the internet, as they look online for anything, anything that they want to learn about regarding Fitness, Health, or what they should or shouldn't eat, it is all just blindly confusing noise from both directions of every subject it is as maddening as looking at the news or current events can be right now. This is why nothing is going on with COVID stuff and science and misinformation. None of this stuff surprised anybody who's been in the fitness industry for the last five years. None of it because you can just look on the internet and people will tell you fucking anything. Their carbs are the best. Carbs are the worst, you have to eat egg whites only, you must only eat the yolks. That's good. Yeah, milk. You know what I mean? Like these, these poor people don't have a fucking clue. And they've turned to you, and they've invested in you, and they've trusted you. And yet, you are only giving them that one hour in the gym. And that's a big problem, so what I want to tell you guys to do is stop selling your stuff like this. If we're talking about one on ones, you want to know why you can't sell one on ones because nobody wants to spend money for an hour of your time. They don't. What they want is what can you give me for eight weeks? What can you give me in 12 weeks? Or? You know what, in 12 weeks, I would like to have made some big progress. Do you know what I mean? I've let myself go. I've just been falling into the classes. It's okay, but I'm not as common as I can. I cut twice a week coming in one on one with you. And then I'll do class, can we do the thing where I reinvest? Is that an option? And then I want to make sure I'm focused on the foodstuff at the end of this, I'll go back to the group classes, but I just really need some fucking momentum here. And people, people. So many of your existing members are in that situation right now. And you don't even know. And that's that's the big, that's the big issue. And you don't have to sell them or hard sell them and all this stuff. But God, you should know how much you could do for them in eight weeks, add an extra couple of 1000 bucks. You know what I mean? Like, what could you do for somebody health wise and fitness wise with that type of investment, it's a lot, you really can do so good. So you have to present your stuff in those terms.

John Fairbanks 27:23

And I think coaches that are really good and are really invested especially early on, they're probably doing a lot of stuff that you're talking about Tyler where they are following up with messages, and they are really going above and beyond. And they're going the extra mile, but they're not being compensated for those actions. So it actually ends up having a worse result, which is the burnout becomes more real, because the coach is almost giving more, is constantly giving and giving and giving. You're giving more than what the person that's receiving. And so then it's feelings get hurt. And it's just like, oh, well, you know, fuck this guy. Like I've told him 1000 times that this is what he should do. And this, that and the other and he never listens. And it's so infuriating. In fact, like, this is like my worst. It's, yeah, do you realize how much better the client is that's going to say, You know what I would love to have additional accountability with you to where you can hold my feet to the fire, you can work with me. And we can work on these things. Because this is my goal for an extra $45 a week, or whatever the number is that you pick. And you say, I can provide this for you, the people that have now invested in themselves to do that. Their ability to then do the homework that you give them, follow up, send the images, send the follow up with the messages, like their adherence is so much better, and your burnout is going to be so much lower.

Tyler 28:55

And every chance, every every single service that you don't offer. A new client is an opportunity for them to succeed if you are failing to present them. And that's the truth. I mean, there's a million different ways you can succeed in a transformation journey or nutrition thing or coaching or in general. And I think it's super important to try like when we always talk about speaking their language and meeting them where they are right. Like are they in any way interested in hanging out with you twice a week? Like is that's not the proposition. That's not. That's not what we're selling, it isn't the time. So I implore you to try to present this stuff differently. Meaning is twice a week at $100 a week. That's $100 a week, that's $400 a month. Is that for one-on -one coaching? Is that a very desirable proposition? Does that move the needle to you at all? If you're like, Hey, I'm looking for some coaching, say perfect 50 bucks a session. There's nothing in that language communication wise, this speaks to what the client wants. There's just not. So the fact that they're even asking you what you charge is a fucking miracle at that point, right? Sure. Versus if you were to say, and truly be connected to what they want, which is I want to get something done in the next few months. Here's what I can do for you in the next few months, right? And you start laying out services like this, and it's a price at $2,500, for three months or twice a week one on one or however you present it, right. But that number should be attached to the outcomes that they need. So yes, it's $2,500. But we've addressed that it's going to cover foodstuff, it's going to cover nutrition coaching, it's going to cover accountability, it's going to cover some at home general activity and recovery stuff. It's going to cover our home, or our sessions there. And it might cover supplements or something of that nature of recovery supplement or some shit, however you bake in your packages. But that is much easier to sell. And they don't know people don't look at that. And when they look at that proposition, they go, Oh, this is a lot of stuff that I get that seems to address the things that are in the way of my goals. Yeah. By listing your services, as opposed to simply what you trade money for. That's a very different thing.

John Fairbanks 31:21

And it, but I give kudos to anybody that has at least taken the time to list out what services they have. Yeah, because oftentimes, it's just gonna be like, Yeah, well, yeah, it's this price. Like, it's this lunch of mine. It's the unlimited classes. And come on, it's like, okay, and it's, and what we found is that, we've talked about things on a podcast, we talked about you, you've talked about 1000s of things on podcasts. And there's so many folks out there that want to just pull whatever that data is that comes across on a podcast. And they're like, well, great, I'm gonna use this, I'm gonna apply it. And it's like, there's a proper order of things. We've talked about this a lot. But there's a proper order that you gotta know what's going on inside your business. Do you have any type of system in place? Do you know what your gaps are? Do you know what your failings are, you want to get those things built out so that you now know what you could offer, and then provide your people and then be able to actually coherently talk about it, not like an asshole, or not like some swipe file that you gave somebody their email address for and they sent you, the god dude, I saw today, a frickin thing where it's like 2022, Twitter, images, Twitter, quote, images are really popular on Instagram, give me your email address, and I'll send you the template. Like that somehow is going to be the difference maker for you. And your business is whether or not you can say a really classy quote that Marilyn Monroe didn't say, in a really sweet Twitter template. So now that's what's going to move the needle. And that's the promise that we as owners, and as people that are in this world, everything's so shiny, and it's so distracting. And it's like, dude, focus. Yeah, focus on what matters, focus on what makes you money, which is start talking about your own shit better. I mean, this is the whole reason why we did any of these things. It's like, listen, it's a big, dark, scary world of trying to figure this stuff out on your own. And there's a lot of gym owners that are doing it, and you don't have to do it alone. You can have a guiding hand. Or you can have a guiding community where people now are at least trying to say, hey, we're sick and tired of the bullshit, we want to talk about this, like humans. And now let's actually start trying to do better by like, literally doing it instead of Oh, no big circle jerk. Well, we all talk about doing it, and then we never actually do it.

Tyler 33:48

Yeah, I think. But I do think I think that we're, we're like we have a lot of coaches in the group that are like the mindsets, just like right about Trump has taken this term completely where it's like, you know, what I've I've, I've because I've heard from these coaches, I've heard people go I just, we had one we were on a call the other day and one of the coaches said she said, kind of felt like I felt like I was like a slave to the system that we had before like that I was like shackled to this captive by my own business. It's like, because we go into a lot of the stuff and we start looking at people's offers and one of the things we always say very clearly like this is your business. This is your baby. This is your I'm gonna say a bunch of ideas on what I think I like basically, but it has nothing to do with your business. So me coming in saying, I like this. I don't like this. I think this is a problem. That's it's yours to take it or leave it so I'm always apprehensive to be like, Well, I don't like the way you're doing this right? Because I have no idea why. But when we got to the bottom of it, what we found is like, you know, it was I don't like the way you're doing this and she said flat out. Neither do I And but gym owners and coaches we are in that situation a lot. I know you are where you go, fuck I'm doing it this way. And now I guess I just have to do it forever. And it's like back up, this is your business. This is yours, not anybody else's. So it can be run the way you want to do it. And you can do things the way you want to do them. And as long as you understand the thing, like the things we're trying to say, to help you make more money, you don't have to be poor, and do the things that you want to be doing and do it and teach fitness. Right. And we just proved that, like we said, with a coach with almost no coaching experience card charging twice as much money essentially per hour of billable time, twice as much money as the average person out there.

John Fairbanks 35:41

But Tyler, it's because you guys are in a market that is so in tune with physical fitness. It's not like it is where I'm at. I

Tyler 35:52

could not describe for you how unfit and uninterested in investing in physical fitness the market that that person is in, is in. And so this isn't this is not some like high ticket fucking thing. This is just, this is just a solid proposition that this coach makes. And it's done through with the sales principles we have, and it's no frills and no bullshit, there is no scam you shit to it. And that's the point is what are you trying to do? How can you do it best? Assemble that and offer that to people? And the people that say yes, fucking rock and the people that say no, most likely, they just can't afford it. And that's okay.

John Fairbanks 36:30

Any limitation that you have, if you're hearing this, and you're seeing this any limitation that you have that you're thinking it is, it is something that you are bringing with you. Right, you're bringing with you to this conversation that is limiting you from it, but you're not alone. Tyler and I, you and we were just talking about this before we got on. But we got the opportunity to go and rub shoulders with other folks from lots of different industries at events. And so we were at an event back in November of last year. And we were in the room and the speaker was teaching us about, you know, this thing to be able to help us start doing in our business and start taking action on. And I asked the question, which is like, Well, how do we know? Like, what level of success do we need to have achieved before we can start taking action on all of these things that you're talking about. And the speaker kind of gave an arbitrary number a little bit like, I have 100 members of my gym, or you need to make a quarter of a million dollars or whatever it is to give an arbitrary number. And the second you can see it the second it came out of her mouth, she immediately wished that she could grab it and bring it back. Because it was no, whatever measure that you think that you need to achieve. She says it doesn't actually exist. And one of the dudes that was in the group just kind of raised his hand, he was like, it doesn't matter. You know, to sort of apply exactly what he said, it doesn't matter how many people you have in a group, it doesn't matter how many folks are inside of your business, it doesn't matter how big your company is, if you can accurately say what the problem is. And you can provide the solution to that problem. Everyone will want to work with you, like hard stop. And I remember being like everyone's minds were just like, oh, like holy shit, because everybody doesn't matter where we're coming from. We're coming with these false senses of, I just need to be here, I just need to get 30 If I can just get 2000 followers, if I can get 100. If I can get a blue checkmark, if I could do it, if I could just get on a jar , if I could just get on Joe Rogan. Right? If I could just do these things, then everything will work out and it's like, no, you're playing the wrong game, you're playing the game of if I just lose 10 pounds, I'd be happy. And we all know we're trying to fix our own clients who have this problem, which is guys, stop thinking that because you lose 10 pounds, you'll somehow be happier. There needs to be something deeper that you're working towards. You want to be working towards something that's meaningful. So for everybody else, it is this notion of dude start just doing better because that's what you want to do. And try to start just letting those shackles in those chains that you're carrying with you will mock you and allow yourself to just go and provide real value.

Tyler 39:25

Yeah, we ended up kind of being you end up kind of being stuck in this position where you wait for a gatekeeper to tell you it's okay and I think that for coaches out there so if you're if you're ever go across the come across the thought like I could never charge that much or I could never make that much well that's that one is definitely purely on you because I can tell you for sure. There's no saying who said this but this is from my old days of moving from one you know from one job to another. You are never going to get paid what you're worth, you will only be paid what you can negotiate for and that That is the Absolute Truth, there is nothing out there. There's no central database that lets clients or potential clients go online and find out how much they should pay you, versus how much they should pay somebody who knows more than you. And what that means. Those things don't exist, that doesn't factor into what they want. By the way, nobody hires a coach because they want the coach who knows the most. Don't care. So remove all of that stuff, start speaking their language, start speaking to the things that they want to accomplish. And you'll be able to negotiate yourself into a much higher position. The only thing stopping you from making twice as much money as a coach right now is your unwillingness to ask, and unwillingness to offer more and to do more and to be better. Think of how much better you could do for your clients if you had twice the time and the same amount of money.

John Fairbanks 40:49

Yeah, you don't do it alone. No, right. There's a lot of coaches, there's a lot of us that are talking about this thing. You go to your you can come and join in the community, it's free and be able to start having this exact type of these types of conversations. Obviously if you're hearing the podcast only and not watching it, we broadcast the podcast so you can see how definitely good looking we are inside of the podcast inside of the group. So at Community dot hacker You can get both of those things.

Tyler 41:21

You got it. Alright guys, thanks a lot for listening. We'll see you next week. Follow the show on Instagram at the gym owners podcast follow me at Tyler effing stone and John

John Fairbanks 41:30

at Jay banks, FL.

Tyler 41:32

Thanks a lot, everybody. We'll see you next week.

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