The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/How You Can Make BIG $$$ from Clients BEFORE They Join Your Group Classes

How You Can Make BIG $$$ from Clients BEFORE They Join Your Group Classes

Friday, January 20, 2023

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people, group, gym, offer, clients, work, business, week, fitness, talked, product, selling, months, friends, custom, results, community, money, coaches, sales


  • How do you structure your access points into your business? - 0:14
  • ​Why you need to be different in your business - 2:29
  • ​Why you need to inform your clients that you have other products and services - 7:39
  • ​Making it about them and not you - 11:48
  • ​You have to be respectful of the fact that the tighter knit your tribe is the more intimidating - 14:45
  • ​The price shoppers are the most extreme version of them - 19:21
  • ​Why you have to have a start and end date for every offer - 24:36
  • ​How much money do you get out of your first six months? - 29:05
  • ​Why you need to have your base offering in every step of the way - 32:47
  • ​Why you need to start thinking outside of the gym - 36:46
  • ​How can I make this feel custom to every person that walks through my doors? - 40:58


Tyler 00:14

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the gym owners podcast. I'm your host, Tyler Stone over there as John John bags. He's John, it's not. So we're actually just talking about the nerding out on the subject of the client experience. And we're going over parallels with other industries, I have my car in the shop. And there's a lot of things that we do as business owners to try to craft like a high quality client experience or client journey, however you want to call it what turns some use the term value ladder, some use. But I think in the fitness industry, it's a little bit different, I'll kind of explain why. But I want to go on the side of not just being premium, and not just, you know, the way that we fulfill it, but really specifically how you structure people's access points into your business, what's the first thing they can do when they come in? Or what's the first thing they want to do when they come in, and how do we then unravel our services and unroll or reveal our services to them? As we get going? Right? So for a lot of you guys, group fitness is a thing that is kind of the basis of the bread and butter of a lot of businesses, a lot of the functional fitness gyms, it's easy. We thought it was easy to scale. Right? But there's one entry point, right? There's no reason why someone can't come in and join a group, I don't think. But on the other side, there's plenty of potential clients out there that don't care or don't want to train in a group with other people. And I think that's reasonable, don't you think, John? Absolutely. Yeah. And, and I think that we get stuck trying to bring everybody into our group classes. And that's where you have trouble selling, like somebody, some people may just not want to be tired in front of other people. Some people may not want to suck at something in front of other people. Some people just don't want to be around other people in their free time. Everybody has a different environment, that they're interested in taking this leap of faith into fitness or continuing their path, aren't they like some people group isn't going to be your thing. So we've been doing some interesting stuff with some coaches that do one on one. And I want to address kind of like three potential access points for your business, and how you can move people from one to the other and gradually, give them a better, more evolved fitness experience, and also make more money along the way. Right. Good.

John Fairbanks 02:29

One thing that I want to say, just ahead of time, Tim was like, before you go into the specifics, one thing that you and I do hear from folks, all the time is I'm different. What we do, what I do in my business is different. I am a garage gym, but I just do, I'm only a garage gym, or I'm not a CrossFit gym, or I'm just a personal trainer. And so when we're talking about value, ladders, customer experience, everything that you're about to lay out. doesn't come from the fitness industry. Correct. So this is why you talked about your car being in the shop. And what a miserable fucking experience that is dealing with people that are going to try and convince you that your car needs new blinker fluid. Right, you just know that they're fucking you? Well, that's your customer experience. Yeah. And I'm from Southern California, my parents disliked my mom and worked for Disney for 20 years. So you realize, well, you're about to go into all these details and everything. Disney has really specific things that they're going to have as products. Yeah, but the customer experience is not tied to those specific products. It's tied to how they make you feel from the second that you drive onto their property. Yeah, all of those emotions, all those feelings. You can have the people that work in your business or your clients feel a very similar way. And so that's why I want to make sure just to try and as you're listening to what you're about to say, as the listener, try and remove everything how you already know what Tyler is about to say, is wrong. Or somehow you're special. And somehow you're different.

Tyler 04:31

Or your clients will pay or nobody will do this in your area or people don't want it or people only come to you for this or you know, my market people don't like it. So you guys are in a big market. We have coaches. We have coaches that don't have brands and we have gyms that don't so let's get right into the nitty gritty here. And it's important what John just brought up. The reason when you go to Disney that the overall client experience is incredible, is because of the attention to detail and their delivery. And that is not what we're getting into today. What we're getting into today is what parts are they Going to, are we going to designate, are we going to California, whatever the thing is, the ones that are across each one have a different reason and a different purpose. And that's the stuff I want to lay out for you guys today, how you deliver that in a high on a high ticket level or on a premium level or just in a good way that's up to you. And that way, you can still mold your coaching personality, your business's personality into this stuff, which is super important. So don't just start doing these things, because we told you to think them out, figure out how this works for you, your clients, main clients, you don't have yet. But maybe you don't because you don't offer them a different entry point. Right. So one on one is a really good one outside a group, I think it's very valid. Obviously, personal training is expensive, people want to spend the money for it, they want to get the results people are willing to pay for it, we see it time and time again. Now it is an issue for scale for a coach or a gym owner, because it's directly money for time if you have it set up as such. But I think it's important to know that you can have this sales flow, right? Where if somebody comes in and just does not want your group, then don't keep trying to shove them into your group or convince them that your group is for them. That's the big problem I see a lot of people doing, it's like, wow, I don't really know, it seems like crazy, they slam a bars around or so yes, you can try to dismiss it, but simply offer them something that's them telling you though kind of you can offer them a different product or a different path that works. One on One is a great one, if you'd like some more personal attention, we can do one on ones. The beauty is now the way the sales sequence works is we'd have one on one trainers who do this who don't offer a full group like catch all group fitness, they do one on ones. And then they do semi private, custom groups like, hey, one on ones is you. And after a certain amount of time, if you don't want to continue paying whatever it's going to be $2,000 every couple of months, you know, for this personal one-on -one coaching. And maybe some people don't want an endless relationship like that, which is the same way we feel with memberships, find them an opportunity to move, find them an opportunity to move laterally to bring friends in. And this has been a key thing that we found that has been really, really, really rewarding for a lot of coaches is to let your clients move from one on one, to a semi private group, if they want, if they're like, I'd really like to do it, it's a little expensive. Or if you get told no to one on ones right away. The perfect send off, if somebody tells you no, because they can't afford it. Give them a business card with the details of your custom semi private program and be like, Hey, you get a group of two or three friends together. And it's cheaper for each one of you and you guys can train together, it's a little more fun. By the way, if they're not feeling connected enough to you to pull the trigger on big time money one on one, bringing friends buffers that relationship, and it does make them more interested in it. And everybody's got friends that they would rather bring into this thing that go out there alone, you know. And so I think that that is a very, very viable kind of sales sequence where you bring someone in, you talk to them one on one, you're going to close the vast majority of them if you're using stacked offers anyways. But if someone says you know, I just can't afford it, or now's not the right time, make sure you inform them of the other products that you offer. And the reason is, semi private custom groups are the most profitable use of your time ever. It's more profitable than coaching general fitness on the floor with a group. Because this one is a little bit more expensive, people still spend 30 bucks a person with a group of four people. And that's a lot more money than what you're getting right now. And so I think that that's like being like the client flow works really, really, really well. Because that way, someone who thinks they want a one-on -one can't do it can pull the trigger and get a group of their friends. And the real benefit of this is while you make more money per person for this per hour, the real benefit is you're still only selling the one person and that one person will go out there and sell three other people for you. And that makes this really easy. All of a sudden, you're pulling in two $3,000 per group. And like, Well, Jesus, I mean, this is just all practically falling into place. Even renewals are very easy. You develop communications with these people on an individual basis. But renewals are pretty simple. Your alpha, if you will, is going to just tell you all the ladies are in. I got two more that are coming in. All the guys around I got two more. They keep bringing people in and it keeps growing. And you allow these people to grow a very high dollar custom group, not your catch all group because that's low value. Right custom group is very, very, very high value. And if that sequence comes in, maybe you don't want 101 to do this; the other group can eventually evolve from a semi private custom group to one on ones, right? Yeah, it's very easy. A few people fall off some with some way and may want more specificity. Some may not be able to get a whole group together for more than twice a week. So they may want to upsell a couple of one on one sessions a week as well. It makes every single person that you're dealing with very, very profitable to work with.

John Fairbanks 09:44

The one thing that we're finding too, is that we throw around a word a lot called accountability. And there's lots of different ways to do it. Well, the cool thing about this particular model of having an alpha Is that having them go and find their friends and bring them to you? Is baking accountability? Like, because when you're working with somebody, that's what I want, and it's brand new, it's a lot of feeling each other out, like early on, are they going to show up? I gotta send a reminder. Like, I don't want to have to reschedule or whatever it is, what do you get for people that have all gone in together? And they're like, No, we're gonna be on Tuesdays and Thursdays at this time, or whatever. And they've come to an agreement as a group of friends. It's like, Bill, you better not fucking be a bitch and not show up on Thursdays workout, like, I don't care if you're, like, tired. And so now you immediately have that, and the enjoyment factor has got to be sky high.

Tyler 10:45

Yeah. And it really integrates fitness into their lifestyle in a much better way. Because everybody knows what it's like to be trying to get into fitness or eating healthy, go to your job and bring a healthy meal, and not eat slices of pizza or fast food in the lunch room. And I promise you, you're gonna know exactly what it's like out there. You know what I mean? Like, like, it's tough when you're not around people who have the same priorities. It really is. Why are you eating broccoli? What are you stupid, gross? You know what I mean? And, and but that's the same way people are with their friends. And when it's like that when their friends aren't on board, or they're not at least thinking like that, it can really sabotage their progress. And this is a great strategy for people that are new to fitness, or getting back into fitness. This is a way to like, really reignite the fire in them. Because there's people that are new to fitness, she's going to struggle to join your family. In a group, you know what I mean? That's a tough part that a lot of functional fitness students are selling. It's like, come join our community, come join our family. We're super close knit. It's awesome. And it's like, Yeah, but I'm still me. And maybe I don't know that I fit in there. And I want my results, can we make it about me, please, and not you. And once we've flipped that around these products, those entry points now make a ton of sense. So you get somebody and they sign up one on one, they don't want to keep spending $1,000 a month, that's just not sustainable. Maybe that's something they can afford for a little bit to get momentum and get understanding. But eventually that's got to drop back, but they love you. They love working with you. And you've got some great results. teasing them and showing them what they can do if they want to renew we can offer on renewal, like if you want to get a group together, we can do this or here's we can just renew our older arrangements like go through, have that conversation with them. Because these people are talking about it, if you're good, they're talking about the work, they're talking about it with their friends. So it's a very easy sell, say, Hey, by the way, all of us can save money. If we come in together in a group that's all trained together twice a week, it'll be a blast, that flow is great. And by the way, if you have a full gym with group fitness, that's where these people can then end up comfortably transiting comfortably for them profitably for you. Getting used to it, getting big results fast, and not risking injury and all this other stuff. And organically ending up walking through that path of one on one custom semi private group that they craft. And then they're bringing their four or five friends all the way over to your group membership, where it's easiest to scale. And they kind of know their stuff at this point. And that is really, really, really the customer journey that I really like. Now, we talked about this in the beginning as well, as someone cannot afford one on ones which is like that, which is the fact like if you're charging enough for your one on ones, you should be talking to people every once a while they're gonna have a hard time paying for it. Sure, it's just true, because your time is expensive. We'd love to just give away results, but you can't. And for those people again, let them skip right over one on one and go right into custom semi private, because the option again, which is only presenting them with one on one or group or like unguided group is what? Yes or no? Right? I can do one on one or I cannot do business, right? We're not really offering an okay budget, your primary concern. And a budget is the issue they can't do? Well, here is at least a low budget option that still fits your comfort zone, which is to bring in some comfort people, bring in your comfort blanket, bring in your best friend, and make you laugh when you're uncomfortable. All those things are really important. And that now can get them there. And either get them fired up and results and move to one on one or back. Or you have a whole bunch of people that will stay there and get good results for a good budget or for a good price. And maybe eventually roll into your group classes. These selling group classes sell a singular product on its own and just wondering why you can't keep stuffing people into that box is the reason that your business isn't working for you. Well, it's

John Fairbanks 14:36

because you've the way I look at it too from another angle is you're not building empathy into your business.

Tyler 14:42

You're not You're not moving away.

John Fairbanks 14:45

Yeah, it's just you have to be respectful of the fact that any gym community, the tighter knit your tribe is, the more intimidating it is. Yeah, so if you're new, that's a skill. That's like going to fucking middle school all over again. I'm like, Oh man, I'm the new kid. And this sucks. And I don't know anybody, maybe you know someone, but they have all their gym friends. And they're super fit. Oh, and they're and they talk so much and now you're fucking loser because you're in the corner. Like to bake on somebody being able to walk into your tribe is banking on the fact that they're an extreme extrovert

Tyler 15:23

yes and no, just already ready to be like tow Hey, this thing on maybe hoping I can get momentum like they have to really be putting themselves out there. We talked really and we put this module in behind the engine hacking University, a really great copywriter that forgot one of the things that he said when he was talking about how to communicate and really not just communicating with copywriting. Really how you should position your offers is there's this concept that says, we buy things to feel better about ourselves, no matter what, if it's food, I want to feel better, I want to not be hungry, I want to enjoy eating dinner with my family. It's a car, I want the drive to work to be dope, I want it to be comfortable. I want good stuff, I want you to see if I want more than anything since I got heated seats, heated steering wheel, by the way that is now the new. That's the new standard by the way around here. But you've got people buying things to feel better about themselves and fit in the fitness industry, you better believe it? That is what we're doing. And so when you understand that you got to quit trying to get people to accept all of these, what's the word? Is it a version? People have points that they're resistant to about your group. I just don't want to. I've seen the videos, it seems like a lot, I just maybe would want to work on myself. And they say no, fuck that concern of yours. Just to our group, it's great. It's awesome. Well, that doesn't bridge a gap to them at all. And even if you talk obviously, I intentionally like failing that. That little, that little explanation. But like, even if you talk to a more compassionate leader like no, you know what, it's really great. We adapt things for everybody's cause, it still doesn't actually address their concern. It doesn't, you're just glossing over it and saying the words, but it doesn't address their concern that like, I just don't want to have this vibe going on with a bunch of people around me. And I'm telling you guys, this, this flow is the perfect way. So if someone comes in this, this kind of touches on a subject that I've brought up in the university quite a bit called offer threading, which where we talked about making a stacked offer, right? You take your regular group offer, you have to add some value, add some value, add some value, add some value, let people buy in their buying, right? Well, we take that one step further. By taking that across the business laterally through your products, meaning every product with every level of commitment should have an offer stack, which means now you can really, really, really optimize someone's not coming in and getting sold. Group one on one or custom group, go fetch your friends, they're coming in. Okay, so group isn't really your thing? Well, I've got some options for you that might work at one on one. We have commitment levels of two days a week, for eight weeks, three days a week for eight weeks, four days a week for eight weeks for the same amount for 12. Obviously, more is going to be more expensive. Which ones are those, you know, maybe fits because there's also schedule concerns. People maybe it's not just about budget, it's how many days a week do I gotta go to this fucking place and spend it out? You know, and like, that is a part of the equation, they may have the money for all but only the time for two, or whatever. Well, they want to dip their toes in the water, give themselves an opportunity to let their buying habits and what they want guide you. And then you finish with a stack offer twice a week for eight weeks, you just want to get some momentum. Great. But we can do analytics, we can do nutrition in that path, we can create this full truly, what's the word high level of service potential at the top, and they can choose a base offering and the bottom if that's what they want. But give people an opportunity to run up that ladder and run towards success in whatever thing fits their bill. And now with these three options, I think you're in a really good place to catch. I don't know the numbers because we haven't run this through a whole bunch of people. You know what I'm saying? But I would be willing to bet that your ability or being told no. Which is almost gonna completely go away in your sales stuff. And most people are strictly price shopping is the only reason you'll get pulled. No, because they've got something for everybody.

John Fairbanks 19:21

Yeah, and the price shoppers, the most extreme version of them. They're just, that Planet Fitness is a business. Yes, right. Well, ultimately, you're never going to capture them. But making sure you've laid it out this way is covering all of your bases. Beyond just price because I think it is really ignorant of us to think Oh, somebody doesn't want to work with us, because it's too expensive or they meet me. You brought it up time. Right, my ability to be away. The fact is it doesn't matter if I want her to join a program that had me three, four or five days a week, there's zero chance on this fucking planet that my wife is going to be okay with me being away from the house, four hours a week, just add time, leaving her for dead with the kids. There's no way. But there's a huge emotional peace, which is, people being unsure. People being embarrassed, people being scared so many pieces to where I began, but I don't know if this is for me yet, like, I need to ease my way into this. And by merely allowing there to be those three options that you have and giving those multiple outs, you're almost allowing the client that you're talking to, to get out of this conversation gracefully without saying, hey, you know, I'm kind of a bitch about this. And I was really scared of all the people in the room. Now you don't have to say that. Now they can say,

Tyler 21:06

this thing over here looks a lot better. Yeah, and you get them to the real issue. And the real issue is just like, man, every time I try this, it doesn't work. And I don't want to be like on the hook again, in front of everybody. It just didn't want me to be accountable to you because I trust you because you are the person by the way, you just need to like you need to trust you. And so it's like, I can be accountable to you, I like you, I don't like some of these products. Now, there's another thing with this, John is that like, these people are effectively down selling themselves kind of, but they're down selling themselves into something with which before it would cross the threshold into going to someone else's business because you only offer a thing or thing, right. So they're able to kind of down sell themselves again to a level committed towards that doesn't mean lowering your prices, it doesn't mean diminishing the value or making an ineffective product. We have a client, who 's a personal trainer, and she has sold since we switched to this kind of lateral offer threading type system. She has sold, I think, for people or for either groups, groups or individuals. So I think in each case, there's been four purchases that are made that are twice a week, it's all two times a week to start. And did you know that every single one of them not only renewed for three times a week at the end of their renewal, half of them added the third session a week before they even finished the first eight weeks. So get people in, offer them the opportunity all because by the way, then they know that they can do it three times a week, and of course you want to close people with the higher ticket items. But I'd rather close somebody into somewhere that lets me do a good damn job, do the best I can with what they're willing to start at. And then I've proven my value. And by the way, if you can't prove your value to your clients, you don't want them as your clients. You don't want people around who you're consistently disappointed with, whether it's on you or whether it's on them. If they're not making progress, and they're not having fun, and they're not feeling whatever it is that you're putting out there. Then you gotta let them go. Which means put it all out there, say shit or get off the pot, let's get analytics, I'm not getting you results, maybe two, maybe it's me. But the relationship needs to end after that. The point is we give everybody this momentum towards success. They fall in like this little Plinko board, right, but they get to really choose where they ended at the bottom. And then they can march forward for how with this level of commitment, they want to build their path forward. And that is great. So now two by eight to two times a week, eight weeks. All right. But what about nutrition? And frankly, they could have got three times a week for less money than twice a week plus nutrition plus analytics plus something else, plus another service. But they just want more value for less times a week. And so you just let them just lead. By the way, this isn't hard. This isn't launching five new programs. No, this isn't anything else. This is just a way to present it. And I have some demos, if you guys want to see a demo of how this operating system works. I build it into an iPad, I build it into PDFs and we let people kind of check it out and see and there's a nice visual representation. It's super easy to make. But you just kind of break down everything the way I describe it. So if you want to see what that demo is like get into our community, the Facebook group, that's community dot hacker And in there, I'll see what we'll have it pinned up for a little bit at some point where you can check it out. But I highly recommend it if you want to see an example of what we're talking about, how this works and how some of the numbers work for personal trainers. Go check out the community for sure.

John Fairbanks 24:36

There's a really key word that you used. You went really fast, because it's so built in. You've been very quick that the reason why you went fast is because it's so built into everything that we talked about everything that's inside of Jim hacking University, and it's tied very purposefully into our office. that concept of every time we're talking about building an offer, it has to be time bound. So this is how you use the word renewal. When they came up for renewal, then somebody was able to move to three days a week. No matter what you're doing inside your business, you have to have a start and end date. The fitness industry is really soured on this to a particular degree because of what Beachbody abs in 30 days or less, for 30 minutes.

Tyler 25:34

Plus the inverse of that is your 24 Hour Fitness gyms that won't let you do anything for less than 12 months. Yeah, you can pay monthly, but you're paying for 12 months, that is in prime purpose, because they know you're gonna quit too. So we've been betrayed on both sides of this as consumers. And that's why it's important for us to say, you know, what, 12 weeks, I'm gonna get you what I said, I'm gonna get you, or we're going to get you as far as we get you. And then we're going to know who we are and what we're capable of collectively, each other, and then like adults, in a capitalist economy, we're going to continue to choose to continue this relationship, or we're going to not, but that's how you need to do business. Because otherwise you can have these relationships just run a drift and people don't care and people who don't care don't work that hard and are not accountable. They 're a poor representation of your business. And I think that there is

John Fairbanks 26:25

No, we talked about it all the time, which ended the endless relationship. And this is where a lot of our bigger gyms that run the group, the large group format, when someone comes in signs up to join your gym. It's forever. Yeah, well, how long is this for? Why am I doing this? What was the purpose of me coming? Is this now just like, this is the club that I now belong to Church used to be free Tyler, I could go every Sunday, I'd have a community of people, we would do stuff together. And then maybe we do stuff on Wednesdays, for $0. And I could save my soul. Now, I'm paying $250 a month, for what? forever. And that is one of the huge differences.

Tyler 27:16

And people will say, coaches and by the way chambers, you'll say this because you do a good job of community. By the way, I heard a great thing from one of the nutrition coaches that I was doing some outreach with her. She said, Well, the way she does nutrition coaching is very much in a group in the community, people in that gym, and then they make sure they do zoom calls and bring people on and she had a very funny anecdote. She said, she said, why do people stay in some of these gyms? And I said, Well, you're trying to tell me about what we are asking about? Are we asking what the truth is, because if they're, if you're going to try and tell me about the community, I'm going to be furious. It's like, well, on the marketing side, no community is a terrible attractor, it's actually a thing. But once they're in it is the community that keeps them. It's a great retention tool. And that's important to note, by the way you may have if you look at your numbers, a lot of people when they come in, they stay for a long time. And that's very good. That is really good. Now, can we make sure that more people come in by not positioning your whole proposal in a way that is like going to weed out everybody except for the people who want to stay there forever. You know what I mean? We can get people who have more focused goals and want to spend more money for it. Please do business with these people. You'll thank me later. Really that's the main thing. I try to do business with people who want to spend money and get results like you'll thank me when that's the way you start doing business. If you're doing it the other way, and you're just trying to push some stuff, people maybe don't really even want just to get them moving, which by the way matters, people need to move habits need to change, we need to adjust, we do need to get people a little bit of momentum when they show up to our gym however we can. But we cannot be continuing to shove everything towards this one product, especially when the things I've described to you, you know how much money you can make on the way to having somebody in your group. Now, if you close the math here, I have some numbers for a couple of them. But if you close one on one mid range group three times a week for 12 weeks with some basic add on products, that's gonna be about $2,500 per person here, let's see is a closeout and renewal that's five grand, then you move that person into a group and they pulled they pulled their own group in the custom group for the last seven 800 bucks for eight weeks per person for resets for people serving about another three grand you're getting essentially out of that client. Right? So you're looking at almost $8,000 Give or take eight and a half $1,000 before you've even moved them into the open catch all group, they may want to stay in this $50 and $100 a month for three sessions a week arrangement for a really really really long time after this too. Alright, if but if they convert them to group With these three or four people, the four people convert to group. Now you have them on the hook for two, that's 800 bucks a month, forever. Now they've got the momentum, they've got the cohesiveness, all the habits are on point, they've got results, you made eight or 10 grand. And now they're in the product when they want to be in that product. It's not that you did all this coercion to try to get them stuffed into this product that they didn't really want just so you could get $200 out of them. You're violating the wholesale paradigm by doing it that way.

John Fairbanks 30:31

So the other model is we get them in, in groups, they stay in groups. And they're with you. Let's say, remember, we had a client, we had them pull numbers for us when we first started working with them. And their average of all the clients that they had was their active clients at their gym. The average was just under two years. Right? That they were with them? Yep. That's six, if they weren't charging this, if they charge $250 per month, for that group membership for two years. That's six grand. Yeah. Also, like you just described to

Tyler 31:14

get in the first six months, by kind of letting them onboard, you have to force anybody to this path of promise. They'll choose it if you offer it. And so that's what you're really getting here is your first six months with somebody, which is your most important results with, it's your most important when it comes to trust first impression second impressions, third impressions, do you want them to be with your one on ones and your premium set? Or hopefully, the coach that is coaching a group class isn't your best coach? You don't have to say like, like, like, like it shouldn't be it shouldn't be you know, you should be this should be the premium stuff here, meaning you're able to establish this relationship with your best foot forward. Why the fuck are we doing it any other way? That's what bothers me a lot is yes, let everybody fall in. But those that don't, we really, we really got to try harder, because again, let's this this math is for real 12 weeks, have three times a week, 12 weeks of three times a week with a renewal, and then they bring in a group with three other people, that's eight and a half $1,000 That is six months old, give or take six and a half, nine months, right 30 weeks, whatever that six to nine months, you can make about eight grand off of that person and you won't get it for three years, if they stay, you won't get that much money off them for three years. If you sell them into your group and you let it sit. And then like, this is where the soft math has to become real math. You can't just do membership math, and you try to do membership math, people who are stuck doing membership math don't understand these paradigm shifts, until we start dropping these numbers. And they have to start seeing this stuff. Every time someone signs on the dotted line it reports near $1,500 to $2,500. And it's not because we're charging a crazy amount per session, they're choosing added value.

John Fairbanks 32:57

But Tyler, all you're doing is saying that you need to charge people more money. You're just raising your prices.

Tyler 33:03

I wish but that's where we can talk. That's true. And we've talked about this in the past and and and let me reference this, again, is pin this down as your base offering your group fitness your base offering in every single step of the way your bare bones, whether it's group fitness only, or whether it's two times a week, one on one, for eight weeks, whatever, whatever that is, that needs to be market competitive. It doesn't need to be the cheapest, it doesn't need to be the most expensive, but it's got to be in the ballpark. Because that way your price shoppers aren't going to run around and go oh, these guys are just crooks. Because you're not your base offering they can make an apples to apples comparison for one on one coaching or group they can they can really see it in your bottom tier base offer. What you're doing is just offering them a choice, offering them options, further up that ladder. And the reason that it works. It's because people fucking want you to do that. Why do you think you'll help the few base packages we sell? In the semi private group, some, but most of them even just want analytics. You want to get scanned every month and know what's going on like that fucking rules. This is the easiest. And by the way, when you batch those people in you know, you get five, four people in at one time is 200 hours for 20 minutes. What is this is you guys have started thinking what can I do more for these people to make it what they want and not the whole process where they just want to do nothing and get results. But what do they really want from a commitment standpoint? And now how can you give them success or success options based on that level of commitment?

John Fairbanks 34:34

Because it's, we're playing a psychological game. And we've given lots of examples over the episodes and we dive way into it in Jamaica university. But it's psychologically when people start with you. What else are they going to want to do when they're going to look outside of your business? What do they look for? If they're starting with you because they want to lose weight? They're gonna want to start eating healthier. Maybe interested for the first time, maybe looking at what their body fat percentages are. So are they going to figure out where they need to measure, maybe by measuring tape on Amazon? Like, how invested are they do those things are they going to start taking supplements are going to, they might be doing all those things, you've given the example multiple times of when you started doing your kickboxing stuff at the MMA gym, how much money you dropped outside of the gym, because the gym just didn't have the offer available for you.

Tyler 35:33

By the way, I bought a used heavy Thai bag, got it from that gym, as part of nowhere to hang it, I gotta quit doing this impulsive shit. But that's what I'm saying, Guys, your customers. I mean, like there's always, always have opportunities for people. I guess that's the gist of this whole thing. I think if you understood everything we're laying out here and this, the main thing is if you can build a reasonable Apples to Apples stacked offer for your base offering, you can start to assess how you would do that for every little subcategory. And this is the thing we go into depth with. And we help clients build this custom out for them. And you know, what we do at Gym Hacking University, is make sure that we can apply their own offer stacking skills and their own products that they develop into this structure. But I want you guys to do this thought exercise, what would you do if I only wanted? I can only afford one session and we're not afford one session. I can only get there once a week. What would you offer? How would I still get some results? If I'm new off the street, by the way, I may be able to look at this and go you know what, it's just not enough fitness. Maybe there's a hybrid version for at home. What if you give me two hours of cardio and some basic bodyweight stuff and get to me to really correct my movement one day a week. And you really then put a focus on my nutrition. And maybe I'm willing to spend more than I would for twice a week because I have all this other accountability and outside the gym stuff taken care of, because maybe I don't value the in the gym stuff as much as the next guy. Or maybe I know that it's not the gym stuff. That's the reason I'm bad. It's my habit. It's my everything. It's my it's lack of accountability, it's a lack of understanding. I don't know how to read food labels. You don't I mean, there's all this stuff that we can do, right? And I think that those guys do that thought exercise with every product in your gym, every person that comes in, what do they want? Do they want your group if they don't want to ask them what they want? What are you looking for? Just a question you guys can ask. I don't think we beat around the bush so many people come in, and we just start showing them our equipment. And tell them to just stop. It's not about you. It's not about your gym. The people that are looking for equipment will shop for equipment, you know, they'll shop to the next guy that has the cooler equipment. So if you don't have to fight that fight, and if you're losing that battle, that's because you're fighting that battle. Right? Gone. Yeah,

John Fairbanks 37:49

you gave the challenge to do this thought exercise with, right for everybody listening with what you already got. I would love to have you look outside of your business and outside of fitness completely. As you go to the next restaurant you go to right, think about back in the day when we all ate McDonald's, blissfully unaware of what we were doing to ourselves. Understand that massive multibillion dollar companies per year are doing exactly what we're talking about right now. This is why they don't just sell cheeseburgers. They sell the cheeseburger in a value meal with french fries, and a drink.

Tyler 38:36

Sometimes it's not even discounted. It's not even bars,

John Fairbanks 38:39

I guess not anymore. No way. Maybe back in the day it was a value meal. It ain't now. And so

Tyler 38:47

Those are the products I want assembled the way I want them. That's the meal. That's it. Can they spend it? Yes. And can they do that in your gym, they should find a way. That's it. You know, we've talked about this, and maybe we'll touch on before we go. We don't want to give away too much of the other. The other stuff out there. But you know, you've talked to quite a few franchisees out there once. That is a subject that we've talked about like not to get you in a trial, I won't withhold I will reveal any information. But one of the things that they've said is with all of their online sales and all of their online. Right now is the time where almost every business retail or otherwise is learning the hard lesson that people don't just want upsells they don't just want choices. They want the choices to actually feel like they're customized to them. And now this is why this is the exercise that I'm telling you guys to do: what did they want? What can I give them to fix their thing? Someone off the couch doesn't want to come training four days a week. So what can I do? How can I position this for when I talk to a person like this? Yeah, you're right. That might be a lot if you want a little less time in the gym. Here's what I got for you. Like we need to start presenting things like this so they feel heard. And that's the difference. This is why these franchises if you're trying to order something, if you want to upsell me Do some breadsticks and I don't like breadsticks that doesn't feel like a custom offer to me if that's the only thing I see when I place my order, I want to have breadsticks. But if it feels like, it's like, Man, this thing's really speaking to me. I do love some sweet barbecue boneless wings, you know what I mean? Like, if that thing hits Well, that is that is that is custom made for me theoretic whether it is or not, doesn't matter, but it hits to the tune of what I want. And that's exactly what we want you guys to do with it doesn't mean, do big booty bootcamp stuff all the time, or you're doing the most outwardly appealing stuff. It just means when someone is in here, let's talk about really the parameters with which they're making their decision. And it's not just about trying to get fit or trying to stay home and not, it's not really what it is, it's what is in the way, what do they need to move around? What would be more ideal for them? What would just ease some of their concerns? And I promise, it's usually your product offerings and how you have it presented.

John Fairbanks 40:58

And merely just making sure people know what you want. Right? It's about the smallest baby step. But being willing to take the next step, which is okay. Does everybody know what we have? Yes? How can I make this to where it feels custom to every single person that walks through my doors? Because now you are playing a game? That companies that make billions are paying marketing and data analytics and research firms millions of dollars? To tell them what all of you already know. Yeah.

Tyler 41:36

Yeah, yeah. And I think there's, there's, there's an opportunity here that we touch on a lot . This now separates you from everybody else, because they can't really price shop, we're just not really price shopping, because they're going to compare the best option for them. Not the cheapest, and the best option would be the one they want. So if that involves analytics, and nutrition, and some accountability, and maybe whatever else would stuff we want to throw in. Like, if that checks out for everybody. I think that this is just your best path forward. You know what I'm saying? But I lose that one of the

John Fairbanks 42:13

know, and the fact that every one of these things that we've talked about is applicable, whether you have a brick and mortar gym, whether you're a one on one personal trainer, and the fact is that this is getting sharpened right now in real time. With someone that has limited coaching experience, no brick and mortar gym is a one on one personal trainer and is showing how you can take these concepts of what not to lose it but it's can you do one on one personal training? Oh, no. Well, how about a you become the alpha of a group of friends and do some and semi, which, by the way, isn't

Tyler 42:53

just a no, that's like, I'm going to send you off with an opportunity for both of us. So when you come back, baby birds are welcome. And I think that that's, I think that that's, that's an important and that by the way, that coach will talk to you as also no sales experience. And so if you want to see the results of all of this stuff, what those numbers are, what those offers look like how we kind of navigate them, I have a short little minute and a half video in our thing where I kind of show you visually what it looks like if you choose this, here's how we get to it, and kind of see how it works out. So put some of the earning potential numbers and stuff underneath for just how it's worked for this coach in the first few months. So don't miss out on that one, guys, for sure. I think, take this experiment, run with it, address it in your gym, you need to just run a lot of your product decision making through this filter. And I think you can come out the other side with a, I think a much better connection to the things that your clients really want.

John Fairbanks 43:48

And, and this is what we nerd out on is that you and I, we love this stuff. We're building that community, go to community dot hack your join that community you can join for free and start being able to riff with these ideas. Because you can pay us lots of money if you want us to do it for you for free. I mean, work with you for your stuff custom. Yeah, well you jump in that group, start throwing around some ideas and start sharing some things. I guarantee you're gonna coax us into the group to start dropping some stuff in there. Because it's, I can't help myself.

Tyler 44:26

So get in there, get on board. There's a ton of value in there for you. If you do want to get down and get the full experience of the course. Maybe you're apprehensive about spending right away feel free to shoot us a message. Is it the dudes at hacker The dudes dudes a It's the easiest job or those that all exist to email us at the dudes at hacker with any questions, concerns, or if you're wondering about getting the course maybe you don't want to pull the trigger if it's about timing it's about money. It's about what's really in the course , not how it's going to help you choose questions. I'm glad to answer those questions for you personally so we can get you up on it. So we want to let you know if you if you want to get in on this and you can start doing this you can make big money we have even made these claims on the podcast yet but we have one of our Jim hackers has already pulled small Jim has already only had two sales, three sales sales, three sales opportunities. Yeah, close all of them make their money back on the buy made their money back plus $1,000 by the second sale,

John Fairbanks 45:26

and a $700 deal. Yeah, so it's now

Tyler 45:30

tripled their investment on this course with three sales opportunities. Now we have a 100% closure rate, everybody's closing at much higher prices, and clients are happy. They're not getting into some wild kind of complicated intake system and before and now it's just a system that works best for the gym and the clients. Easy. They didn't have to reinvent the wheel. They didn't have to flip the whole business on its head and didn't have to do anything different anymore. Get on board guys.

John Fairbanks 45:54

Nothing new. Nothing. It's all the stuff they already had. And that's what I'm most proud of. Yeah,

Tyler 46:01

definitely. And we have more success stories out there. So if you want to get in the group community that Follow me at Tyler reference stone on Instagram fo John

John Fairbanks 46:09

at J banks, FL

Tyler 46:13

post gym owners podcasts on Instagram and join the Facebook group. I think we got all the boys out there. Adios

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