The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/A Feedback Loop of Success for Your Clients AND Your Business

A Feedback Loop of Success for Your Clients AND Your Business

Friday, January 20, 2023

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people, coach, sessions, hour, clients, money, business, gym, services, offer, kids, training, talk, feel, selling, exercise, dollars, product, skills, teach


  • What are some of the common pitfalls that coaches and trainers run into when selling personal training? - 0:00
  • ​How many hours do you need? How much do you want to pay? - 4:15
  • ​The value of looking outside the industry to find solutions - 7:43
  • ​Why you have diminishing returns at a certain level and when it’s time to stop presenting options - 14:51
  • ​Why you need to start communicating your services for what they really can do for your client - 18:22
  • ​You need to have these covered before you get an influx of leads - 21:19
  • ​How to become more valuable to your clients - 26:30
  • ​When you get up in the morning and it’s been a fifth year in a row of gaining five pounds a year - 29:34
  • ​You can’t highroad yourself away from giving people what they actually want - 33:43


Tyler 00:00

Welcome back to the podcast, guys. You host me Tyler Stone over there, John Fairbanks. That's me. So we've had a big week this week, John, we've been running a bunch of clients through our clients through kind of rescanning their offers getting stuff built up teaching them how to sell their offers, how to present them, how to talk to people, how to talk about their stuff on social media, it's been a very, very, very productive week. And I think we've got a lot of businesses and coaches out there and new trainers, gym owners who have the word, an incredibly new outlook, New Hope, potential, all of the things no longer selling, like, you know, trying to wonder how I can keep jamming people into the single product. And I think we've been seeing a lot of trends in what people are doing. And then seeing where we usually end up kind of the direction we ended up pointing these coaches and gym owners to. And we want to kind of talk to you guys about some of the common pitfalls that we run into. And one of the most common issues that we see and hear from coaches and trainers is how can I make more money? Or on the other side, again, that thing that I was talking about? How can I get more people? How can I get more leads? I need more people. But you also want to make more money per session, right. So there is a way that you can kind of do both of it by attracting more profitable work. And more work, more invested clients create a system of more invested clients that keep making sense to create the thing we talked about all the time. A feedback loop of success, a very invested client buying a very, very specific path with you is more likely to get there than somebody who just buys a little bit of your time. So that investor client gives you more money, that invested client is more likely to get the results, which then gives you better testimonials, better results, better reputation, better word of mouth. And that's always just one. So trying to present your stuff in this way and directing it towards the client is what we're going to get into today. One of the things we see very often. And it's very common with gyms that are having a hard time making money with personal training specifically, either people don't want it, or they're just simply not making enough money doing it is doing the money per session game. When we get into as gym owners, as coaches, when you get into selling personal training, by the way, I don't blame you, I've done it, where you just start by saying someone who wants personal training, you say perfect, I'll charge this amount to this many sessions per week. And that is what you do. Because the truth is like all things we do in business, sometimes you just need to make it happen first. Right? And I'm always a good advocate for that, like, you know what, I gotta make a product, somebody wants my thing, I haven't thought about it. Perfect, whatever, just get doing it. And I do believe in that action. First simple action first, I think is a good starting point. And the

John Fairbanks 02:45

The hard thing is, this is how we measure everything. So really, when it comes down to it, it's going to be especially from a gym owners perspective, what's the cost per hour? Right? How many people do I have in the class? Who am I coaching? What's the value? What's the cost of electricity? What's the cost of opening a cabinet facility? So that you can clearly show? Right? At the end of the day? How much money am I making per class per person that's in there. So everything starts rolling into this function of dollars per hour. Yeah. And so you start comparing everything, and then we are transferring that to clients. So now they're looking at our service by dollars per hour. Because yeah, that's what we're presenting

Tyler 03:35

our own equation to them expecting them to play. And by the way, I've done this in other industries, too, if you ever have to explain to somebody that the reason you charge have to charge so much for something is because you have, well, I have bills that are this month, and you're already in playing the wrong game, because you've already diminished the value of your service to just time. And there's a trend that I've seen, and this is a really good example for you guys to have out there a lot of by appointment people, or people that do a trade or a skill or whatever that may be charged by the hour, it's very common, right? It's common across almost a lot of lines of work, right? However, usually on the back end, ones that don't do that are doing, say I'm gonna do this, this is how much for the whole project, it just gives you a number for the whole project. Yes, they're doing dollars per hour math on the inside at the business. But that is not how it is being presented to the client. Because the client doesn't care and your time doesn't mean anything to them. It just doesn't. They want what they want. Which means if you're gonna buy a house, if I'm gonna build a house for you, John, I'm going to say it's going to cost this much money for me to do this based on these plans. That's what it is. And if I'm breaking down how much I'm charging per hour, they're either going to be insulted because they don't think it's worth that much per hour for my time. And thanks again that you're never going to win. But if I say I'm going to build this house for you with this quality and all these materials as such, and I'm going to do it at this price, that person wants you to know what they want, they want that house, they want to build it based on the plans that they presented to you. And that's how you do it, you don't say, Oh, this many hours, that's not how it works, you know how I can tell a good tattoo artist to charge me by the piece of art that they're going to put on my body, meaning I don't, I do not pay a tattoo artist by the hour, if you have something that you want to be really good, because if you want something that's really good, you know what they're gonna say, they're gonna say, they'll come up with a piece of art, they're going to get the size and for our, it's going to be on your body, and they're going to say it cost this much for me to put this thing on you. You're never gonna find a great tattoo artist to charge by the hour, you know why? Because you can't know nobody is going to pay $500 an hour for anything. Right, but they will easily spend $5,000 to get this work of art put on their body, by a professional who knows what they're doing. And by reframing it that way, it makes so much more sense. Because if you can get the same piece of art put on the same part of your body by somebody for 50 bucks an hour, 100 bucks an hour, yeah, you're not going to go to the guy, it's 500. Let's stop having that conversation. The people that want something good and want something quality, want a quality piece of art on their body, want to pay money, want you to be able to take your time, the last thing we'll do is rush a tattoo artist because the other hour, what are we going to do? And that dynamic is really important. Because, you know, when I got this tattoo here, when I was overseas, it was the most expensive tattoo I've ever gotten, it's like the smallest one I've ever gotten. But it's in a location that needs to be done well and needs to be done by someone who knows what they're doing. They need to be willing to take the time, just sponsor skins very stretchy, it requires somebody with skill. And this guy had a lot of skill. But if I did the math on what this cost me per hour is about $400 per hour, and it was fucking, like 11 hours. You know, I mean, it's like, it's like almost a $4,000 tattoo per year, I would never never have paid that by the if he told me that's what he was charging per hour, then I would have lost my fucking mind when we got to our five. What are we do you know, but what I got what I had, because the arrangement going in was, here was a piece of art, here's where it is on your body. This showed me exactly put me in the position of knowing what it's going to look like on me, literally, you know, he mocks it up and goes. So to do this, and put this here will cost this much. And you know what, he made a bunch of money. It was very profitable for him five hours one day, day five or six the next. That's it. But that's but that's the point is I got exactly what I wanted. And I have no complaints about the price and no complaints about the work. Everybody wins in that situation. If I wanted to race to the bottom, I could go to the guy that is the per hour guy. And this is a thing that as gym owners and as coaches, you have to understand that same principle, you have to extrapolate that out to what you're doing. And yeah, there's a time and place for whatever you need to do if you if someone just wants a session here and a session, whatever, think flexibly, but as you're trying to attract people, and as you're trying to draw people in, and you're trying to move them up your value ladder and offer higher levels of service, which is always the thing that we talked about, how can we serve them better, because in serving them better, we can charge more?

John Fairbanks 08:13

Yeah, and as you are doing that thought exercise. We've talked about this before, but this is the value of looking outside the industry. Right, don't be afraid to creatively come up with solutions that maybe aren't stereotypically inside, maybe your immediate market, or in the fitness industry in general. Because we had an example this week where we had a coach be like, how do we get someone to stop asking me for discounts? And it's like, you know, I have a wedding photographer that's going to charge me $3,000 to do our photos. There's no question about discounts or like how much it was per hour. And

Tyler 08:57

nobody ever asked a wedding photographer like what is it per hour? Nobody does because what you want is delivered. I want you to capture all these moments for me. You know


that so

Tyler 09:10

It's not about time. It was never about time

John Fairbanks 09:13

Now we've given the example before of I think on this podcast, which is the locksmith example. You just want to make sure that the dudes are not going to come back to your house and rob you and you want to make sure it gets done well and done right.

Tyler 09:31

And you pay a lot of extra for what with a locksmith convenience. Wondering if it's a Saturday and a Sunday if it's late at night like the guy that's being that's what you're paying for. He's never gone like I know someone spent $500 on a locksmith two consecutive weeks in a row in Austria. renovator. She locked herself out of her apartment in a nice place. Kind of a complicated ordeal late at night, two weeks in a row 500 bucks with locksmith. What are you going to do? You know and it's not about having them over a barrel. It's the server. By the way, like, you know what I'm sleeping lady, like, but it's gonna cost. By the way, you know what you got, you know why you gotta pay me to go for four o'clock in the morning because I don't really want to go. Convenience is another isn't. So when you look at things that are valuable to people, the results they want to get are important. The investment that they have to make in time and effort in getting there is also very, very important. Right? So if you can say truthfully that, could you say, this is the easiest way for you to lose 20 pounds? With the least amount of work? I don't advise you to do that. But that is actually probably a pretty valuable offer that would differentiate you from a lot of other people. Is it easier? Is it faster? Right? Faster work too fast is great for adding value? Or is it more certain? Right? Is it a more certain path to their results? Meaning like a lot of people say that you're going to cover nutrition, or you're cooking breakfast, or you're going to get me a chef? Are you going to, you know, kick my ass when I'm dragging ass in the gym? Are you not going to accept low effort work from me? You know what I mean? There's a thing that I do when I go into coaching is I need a coach to hold me accountable for my bullshit. The truth is that you know, you know what I mean, in training, and you see, but I need somebody to be like a dude. Like, it's fun talking with you. But like, you know what you're here to do? You know, and it's a real deal you need some of that. And so, when we talk about presenting your services, the reason people are always getting asked about discounts, or how it's pretty expensive is because it's only time versus money. And that is always going to break. So to break that paradigm requires you to put yourself in their shoes, and just walk their desired road from where they are to where they want to be. And walk that path through you and your services. Walking with them, doing that thought exercise was okay, so I walked into this gym, right if your clients had walked into this gym and signed up, they gave me options that I could choose from or whatever. And I chose this because it fit my budget. And then I came in and I got thing A and I got thing B and I got things C and it was a lot of fun. The experience was professional, the experience matters, right? And you can start to build your service offerings in a way that fits that experience. And then the results still are what you're selling. But the path between A and B still is a part of that as well. That's the part that makes you different from other people. And it's the thing we've talked about in the past with nutrition and coaching philosophy and all this other stuff that we want to want to bark up about what makes us different, right, like I do keto for weight loss, oh, well, I'm gonna get you strong because I teach powerlifting type type training, which is all fine. If you're in a market where you can coach powerlifters on powerlifting for the sake of powerlifting. Right have enough of them, which usually, frankly, requires you to have an audience first, or at least have a position in that market first. But if you're looking for the general population, you have to figure out what those people want. And what they want has nothing to do with the specifics of how you're gonna get them. If someone wants weight loss, you can give them weight loss and not have to explain that you're going to teach them barbell lifts. They may not even know our most profitable personal trainers don't speak on equipment, it has zero, there's zero relevance to the location of the gym, or when the gym is they don't meet or sell in a gym or on the or regarding equipment or exercise. You're not selling exercise. You're selling results you're selling. What do you want to accomplish in the next few months? That's that dip. And that has been a huge shift versus and we see somebody we see people out there too, who do you know specific skills coach, Regulus coaches for athletes. And if you're just selling sessions, man is that top and by the way that works for kids kind of right, if you're in the kid, the kids fitness game, selling sessions works because you know what parents want for kids, a babysitter that they hired, that's what you're doing or a babysitter that's going to work them out, which is okay to have kids programs, stuff like that, that is the function I wouldn't. But if you want to separate yourself from that, or figure out how you can make more money out of those systems offer an upgrade, maybe that upgrade involves, we're going to make very sure that we're going to improve your kids 40 times to improve their overall strength and structure and make sure they can do it safe. So we want to make sure that they are as injury proof for this upcoming sports season as possible because we want your kid to play and have fun, not be on the sidelines because they got things up. And that now matters that now sounds worth it sounds like it's worth a lot more than whatever 100 Or a couple 100 bucks for a kid's fitness group. And now that doesn't have to be a thing that is a huge time suck on you. That may just be an extra 30 minutes. That's it.

John Fairbanks 14:51

Yeah, the thing that we especially do with the kids stuff because this is an area that I have a lot of interest in when it comes to training, kind of youth and teens. majors. And it definitely, always is comparable. Everything that I see out there is dollars per session, dollars per hour. And all we do, and all I see the market doing is they could just buy more sessions. Therefore, I'll discount more. Yeah, so the idea is trying to get them on the hook for more and more and more. And there is a point where that's, you have some diminishing returns at a certain level. And we see this all the time. And we're talking about building together custom menus with what you do. We don't like seeing it go past your three months worth of time, because then it stays so nebulous, and a stage show like well, six months, 12 months, whenever you're having that type of conversation, it's really just a conversation of how much you're willing to discount your services. And the fact is, if you really drill down, people don't want you and I talk about it all the time. And the endless relationship is that it stops presenting options, where the only thing you can do is discount your services. People have a goal, especially if you're working with youth. If you're working with kids, like summertime, the chains should be fucking off. Like you should be getting positioned and ready, because babysitting is a real deal. But do you want a babysitter is going to charge you by the hour, or do you want a babysitter that's going to explain all the value, all the things that they're going to do with your kid, and how much fun your kid is going to have, and what the results are going to be from that babysitting.

Tyler 16:49

And the discipline, they're gonna gain, we're gonna teach your kid discipline, hard work, we're gonna hold them accountable, and it's going to be a ton of fun, and we're gonna make sure they do it safely, and they get stronger. And there this is the thick, by the way, if you're a kids class, you understand the importance of most of us. I was talking to a guy last night about this, who his son and my son train together quite a bit. And it was like, do you understand the importance of learning to exercise and enjoying exercise and training for strength and like just training to like progress to get better for your own sake, like because it makes you feel good, and you liked doing it? My kid has it, his kid has it at 1314 years old. I did not have that I was a good athlete and did enough of the training stuff to keep people off my ass. And of course responded well, you know, when I was young, but I didn't do it, didn't want to do it, didn't give a shit at all. And then what that cost me is about 1213 years after sports and sure as an adult of slowly getting fat. And I have to relearn that and undo that. That is a thing you can I mean, if you're talking to parents about what you're going to do differently, or what maybe makes the your upgraded version, or maybe why yours is way more expensive than the other other people's because this is what we're doing this is I want to future proof your kids health wise, I mean, I would learn I'm going to teach them about showing up fueled for training what they should eat before they come in to train so they can feel good and get the most out. I want them to value the things that they're going to get, the things that they're going to learn here. I want them to learn to appreciate exercise and want to learn to appreciate feeling strong. You know, you see, we have some time to coach some high school aged kid. And you see the confidence in say a teenage girl who starts training and learns the value of strength, and really learns to be proud of herself and proud of your body and proud for the things you've accomplished much more than what they get on Instagram and social media, which is being proud of the way you look or the way other people think about the way you look. That is fucking cancer. But a person who comes in and you can teach kids how to be empowered, strong, work hard, have discipline, Jesus Christ that is worth a lot of money and worth way more than daycare. And I still believe there's value in the daycare, let's do the kids thing, because people sometimes can't come at big money for the kids all the time. But that type of system, come in, get them moving, and we're gonna do our best, right. But we do have one that's like real next level stuff, some Navy SEAL training for children. You know what I mean? We're this is where this is the thing where we want, we really want to future proof your kids by teaching them the real value of fitness and the value of health. And I want to teach them lessons in and out of the gym just in this hour. That's a product that's worth double your traditional Kids program, at least without a doubt the amount of time.

John Fairbanks 19:30

But make no mistake, because I think this is important too. There's a lot of coaches out there, especially guys that I've that I've played with over the years in college and watching them in their own fitness journeys and what they're doing with their own businesses, that there's a big piece where they'd have a big heart. They want to go back to where they came from. And they want to give those kids that didn't have a shot. The way they didn't have a shot when they were young. And then essentially they just got lucky, and they rolled, they had a good hand, and they were able to ride that all the way out. They want to come back and they want to give back, we'll make no mistake, you don't have to make your shit more expensive. Do you have the ability to make it more expensive as you add more and more value, but even your lowest tiered offer, if you change it, so you're not having a conversation of dollars for hours, even then, you're now attracting the population better that you do want to see if,

Tyler 20:37

and this is the important thing. So we talk about this aspect, John about why we want to why you need to start communicating your services for what they really can do for your client. Because if you can't explain it in a way that works, that you know, that covers those bases for them, then your product needs to be altered, right, or at least needs to be changed in a way that will fit people's desires a little bit better, doesn't mean the product itself, the base product can't stay the same. But it means you have opportunities to if you're going to make more money for that time, that's how you're going to do it right, you're going to need to fill those needs better. We always talk about doing that in the context of because you can make more money for your time, therefore you don't necessarily need to have this big influx of leads. Right? Right. Also, because you want to have these bases covered before you get an influx of leads so we can get to leads, right, but you want to have something profitable to put them in as opposed to not I'm sure I heard I mentioned it off the puck on the podcast, that McDonald's dollar menu thing, what the dollar menu was there, because it was basically going to get a bunch of people to go because holy shit dollar chickens dollar McDonald's dollar double cheeseburgers back in the day get the real double. But then what happened was McDonald's realized people were only coming to them for that stuff. And it was not tenable. Because it was that the margins were so low that all the work, all the effort, all the systems, all the buying, all of it was still making money, but cutting their own throat and losing out on all the potential. And so what they did is they had to eliminate it, they had to raise the prices on those things. And they had to make sure that people were falling into products that were more profitable for them. Also more likely that you're probably more likely to enjoy it now , don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of likes, eight in the chicken format, double the orders in my life that I put down, you know what I mean? This is right, but I know that you'll be in a gym, what you need to do is you cannot just be selling the doubles. And that's when you're trading time, that is kind of what you're doing now. Because you get the profitability of the programs you're offering, right? By making these few changes. The thing is, with your system, your products are more attractive, generally outwardly, because you're communicating because when you explain them in this way, now it makes more sense, it is a huge attractor. Because again, if you see 10 personal training sessions for $750. If you see that on a website that is not appealing to me at all, if I'm just I don't know what I get, I don't know, it's not about me at all. You know, I mean, I might as well be buying plastic bags, these are the things that go in the garbage. And this is what you do. Like it's all, it's a transactional product, it doesn't mean anything to me, it doesn't move me, you do need to speak to your clients and what's going to move them and what they want is the feeling that they have. They want it to create energy and create momentum moving forward, meaning I feel like I'm stuck, I'm feeling this spot, I feel like I can take this one action with you. And once they come into contact with you as Yes, what we're going to do is and then you just lead them through all the little things that were in the way and this is what you want to get perfect, here's what we can do, here's a few choices for how to get there. That will you will close a much, much, much higher rate of the leads, you get first off, which is a great fix, you will make way more money per per lead that you close and you're going to inherently get more leads because your offer your communication, your structure, your products, everything is significantly improved and much more attractive to somebody from outside your system. And incomparable. Now, if everybody else has their prices out there, and it's just a membership, or it's just punch cards, or it's just how much precession. Okay, you're playing that game now. And I don't want to play that game. I just don't want to. I refuse because it's not worth my time. We don't do it for any facet of any business. I participate.

John Fairbanks 24:22

Don't. And you had a unique, unique perspective, because you watched a business that was in transition from that world to something totally different. And watching that got implemented.

Tyler 24:38

And that was in a world where there was a very new right doing this on the technical side of things that was that people's expectations are money for time. That is what they think of time and material time and material time and material. You go there, you're there for 30 minutes and it's $500. So they're like, Well, how much was that part? I'll sell parts. I sell a service, the services your thing was broken. I came here with Aren't you up and running? We were nice. We were friendly. I dress nice. I didn't park on your driveway and I made sure you knew it and I you know what I do we also do these are things that are policy by the way that makes everything feel better. Now their policy we used to do, we didn't park on the driveway, we would mention it every time. You know, our vehicles are very well maintained. But it would be a real shame for some reason for us to be dropping oil or something on your driveway. Is it okay if there is a parking spot in the street? Perfect, thank you. The other thing that would never ever ever ring the doorbell? Yeah, never. Always not. It was about babies and dogs. You want to start with something Yep, and baby dog situation, even though that's an acceptable way to show up to someone's house knocking first, guys. So these are little things now that aren't next, no cost or cost nothing. But now that experience starts to paint with us, we are professional, clean, friendly, we are going to this is a premium service, the whole thing now feels like this. And that's exactly what we want you guys to do with the things you do best. By the way, if you want to be the raw rugged place that gets people big time PRs, by the way, I love that shit too. That's my jam. Right? And I can sell that to those people. But do you have enough of those people at your disposal, maybe you need to grow a lot of general population clout, before you can specialize, which is another possibility. It all depends on your market. But whatever it is that you are doing, the best advice I can give you is to just make your stuff take the shape of the journey that your clients want. And then everything else that you do will trickle down from there.

John Fairbanks 26:30

Another thing that is a shame is if you stay in this general dollars per hour, highly comparable to other people that either are in your immediate market, or if you're online doing coaching now against the world, right, very comparable. The issue is you're allowing people to already assume what those 10 personal training hours are for the 750 bucks. Like they've already established. Oh, well, I know what that is. And that's not worth it to me. So you're even though they don't know, they have no clue. And that's, and that's exactly where I'm driving is how did, how did the business that you work for? Were you established, not parking on the driveway like that, how we established not ringing the doorbell, how we established all of these pieces, that as you add them up, allows you to become more valuable, and makes it to where people are more pleased with that service that only comes from conversations, being willing to extract that data that I think is where it is completely lost when you allow yourself to become so comparable to where if you're not. People have to have a conversation with you. And then they give you the data to know how to continue to make your service better and better.

Tyler 28:08

And you know, how do you shortcut all of that, though, truthfully, yeah, because we paid a company that taught us you should do all of these things. Because you just can't, you can't simply double your prices. So we start doing all of these things, make this a policy, we don't do this, make sure we start making this and we start crafting our experience with the help of people who have done it with hundreds and hundreds of other businesses. So that's the point. And so that is the thing, because while the way you can do it, you can go there, like I'm going to be the good guy. And then of course, is it we're gonna course correct. And we're gonna do stuff that's gonna take you a long time, years. So the shortcut is, of course, which is kind of what we do as a business. Here's like, we have all this data from all these gyms that we work with. And this, these are the lessons, these are the lessons that we've learned and we can plug them into your business, you can skip all that bullshit. There's a thing that I want to jump back to, because I think that maybe this would be a great point for us to wrap up on with this too, is empathy is key, if you're a coach, right? Putting yourself in the position to feel for your clients is super important. Empathy, if people feel that you care about them, then they'll trust you know, show me you care. I'll care about what you know, right until we're talking about what we know it does. It doesn't mean anything. And you need to again, as soon as I put myself in the position of somebody who's thinking about joining a gym, and I want you to do this thought exercise if you think you're sick think you're someone who's 20 3080 100 pounds overweight. And you get up in the morning and you look in the mirror, and it's been a fifth year in a row of gaining five pounds a year. It's just gotten away from you. Those things just add up and I can hang in here and here and I know I keep making the wrong decisions food wise but just don't. You're not burning in it. You feel the energy cooling up in your body, which kind of by the way is what fat storage is also, you just feel this tense energy pooling up in your body Every day it compounds and you feel like failure and you're stuck. And the whole thing just snowballs, and you're here, and you've just done nothing. And now, you're almost at the point of making a change. And you get up and you look in the mirror, and every, every person in your life now used to be an attractive person. And now you go out and you, you walk down the street, you feel like you're invisible. You know what I mean? You're like that, damn, this is what is going on here. And that, just that, that that is your reality at this point, and you get up in the morning, you look in the mirror, and you're like, What am I going to do? Like, like, you know, what I really think I'm ready to do. I think I just need 10 sessions. Nobody fucking thinks that what do they want, you think that person looks in the mirror after all that goes, I just want more than anything, do I want 10 sessions? No, they want, you want to, we want to make sure that we can get this weight off you as quickly as possible. So that we can make sure we help we want to do it safely. Because we want to make sure that you can keep it up. I want you to feel good walking down the street, I want you to have confidence, I don't want you to have that pent up energy that you need to get something done like that's cancerous, right? Let's blow off that steam. Let's get you feeling good. Let's get you looking good. Let's get you to walk and talk and high on the hog. That is what we offer here. This is what we can do. And I can do this much for this thing with covering all these needs. That's what right, that's where we can fill that in at the end, right, we're gonna do this, this this, it's going to be food, this all count of whatever it is that they need. That is so appealing to a person in that situation. Does that make sense? Nobody looks in the mirror 30 pounds overweight and goes God, I just really wish I had 10 sessions. No, I wish I had spoken ABS. I wish I looked better. I wish I felt better, like I do that. Give them that, Tom like that, because you're not talking to them, when you're talking about the difference between brown rice and white rice, they don't fucking care. They don't care about the reason you like to do this type of exercise this way. And the other way is wrong. They don't care. That's not what they want. And that will not move the needle at all. Now there is a base level course of social media posting where you want to be informing people and engaging people and just be a fitness person. So I get a lot of that stuff, right I do get like just talking about fitness talking about exercise I do get I do get a lot of that. Well, when you're trying to appeal, people, you got to do the other thing, you got to do the thing I just described, do that exercise, because next time you talk to somebody, they're gonna fucking know that you've at least thought about them. Thoughts about people like them. And I talked to a lot of gym owners, we talked to a lot of personal trainers, I talked to good ones, and we talked to bad ones. And there's the fact is, there's some out there that don't give a shit about their clients. Or even if they do care, they've never really quite thought through just this exercise that I did was that 3040 seconds, do it. Think it through, be that person looking in the mirror, like you see them out there learning to feel for those people. When you do and you talk to those people it will crush and by the way, you're actually not manipulating them, you're actually getting them in. Because if you're dangling punch cards, or if you're dangling sessions in front of a person, and they don't want it well, what do you think you're gonna you're gonna make more money by raising your prices, that's not going to work either. So it's very, very important to do this thing where this you got to be that you got to walk in their shoes, you got to really think about who they are, where they are, where they came from, and what they want, what do they want, and you got to give them the thing in their terms. One of the things we talk about in MMA training all the time is like the best way, of course, for you to get better. So if you're doing kickboxing, right, the best way, which is what, the best way for me to get better at this is to go in and drill the most boring shit all the time, right? If a coach truly was like, I want to make you the best kickboxer you can be in two years, that's what's going to be. I'm going to be doing hours and hours of just conditioning and fundamentals and just building this huge movement base. Like that's what we're doing right. So, a month in, I'd be so bored. So you have to find the right Mac Max is like, Hey, you want to feel like a bad motherfucker like come in, we'll get you the fundamentals. And we'll let you swing some spinning heel kicks and do some nonsense every once in a while like this is we're gonna have some fun with it. And you gotta do it. You can't highroad yourself away from giving people what they actually want. Because then they're just never going to show up at your front door.

John Fairbanks 34:09

And don't get hung up on. But let's say you're, we've done work with skills based basketball coaches. Yeah, we're okay, you're not selling weight loss. Alright, so that's fine. So don't get hung up on the topic. Stick to the principle of that thought exercise. Put yourself in the people that you want to work with. Put yourself in their shoes, what do they want to achieve with the skills that they want? Why do they want those skills? Why don't they have those skills? Who has those skills? And what is the result in this person not having those skills right now, and what could they achieve? What could their future look like? What could their life look like? When they get those skills which you can give them in a x amount of week program that you can guarantee and you can hit all these different levels. Because you bothered, just like you said, to take a 30 minute thought exercise to stop talking about, well, all you need is 10 sessions with me, and I'll help you with X, Y and Z. It's like, no, no, no, no.

Tyler 35:20

And this is true. And I when I mean empathy, I mean it is you cannot just think your way through their shoes, you need to feel it, you gotta do it. Because if you can't, if you don't, you're just then it just doesn't work. So that you know, and then same thing with this skill thing you describe what does that look like? What does that look like? Do you love the game? You love the game, you want to make progress, you live it, you breathe it you love but there's only so many hours in the day, right? You want to have the time having fun playing at the park when of time fun playing with your friends. But at some point, we want to make sure that we have progress, we want to get better, you want to earn your spot on the team, you want to feel better, you want to be safer, you want to know the game, you want to be a student of the game, you want it you want to play at the next level, well, let's get you all of the skills that are required for the next level stuff. And I can do it because I know this, this, this and this and I know it's I got now that seems a lot better than we have workouts that you can come in and do at our skills training camp stuff and can't like you know, it is a more specific tone speaks more to them and it just allows you to dangle a product there that's worth more money. And that's the truth. So guys, I think that's got us about wrapped up for today, you want in we are probably going to be shutting down the low cost of our of our kind of offer audit stuff where we come through and help you clean up your menu with your services and teach you how to sell that will not be the 397 price for very long, because we are about to take on a whole bunch of new people here running through and we want to make sure that we can really, really serve everybody well, that introductory offer we're gonna hang on to so if you do get it within the next I would say probably a week or so week or two of the release of this episode, shoot us a message and ask we'll probably get you in at that price. Otherwise it will start to go up as it's part of some other services that we're going to be doing here. So if you want to know you can shoot us a message. Message me at Tyler F is still on message the podcast at the gym owners podcast or John at J banks FL and they asked what we got from the Facebook group?

John Fairbanks 37:14

Yep, go to community dot hack your

Tyler 37:20

And if you want to take the journey on your own, take the time to really go through the deep dive with your business. Get all the things you process, your opportunities, identify everything within your business as it sits and then make a game plan going forward. Then you do it to the more thorough version of everything you can still get into Jim hacking University. So that is at hacker And you can message us if you have any questions about this stuff as well. So I think that'll do it for everybody. We'll see you next week.

John Fairbanks 37:48

Until next time

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