The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/THE GUIDE TO UPSELLING


Saturday, January 21, 2023

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upsell, people, sales, services, option, sell, nutrition, afford, gym, choice, buying habits, offer, convince, piece, work, interrupted, system, fitness, results


  • ​Introduction to this week’s episode - 0:01
  • ​When you have all these options, it becomes like going into a pizzeria and ordering pizza online - 4:23
  • ​How to build your offer stack to help your client - 8:53
  • ​Why you need to have a sales system - 14:45
  • ​You can give them full on meal plans and you can do what I do very often - 17:17
  • ​The price is important on this too - 20:58
  • ​How to tell if you’re doing the sales system you are supposed to be doing - 24:41
  • ​Get down to business with your clients - 29:22


Tyler 00:01

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the gym owners podcast. I'm your host Tyler over there is John. Hi, John. Hey, Tyler. This week we want to reframe for you a sales term that I think has gotten a bad rap. The upsell. Okay, so we're this week we're gonna explain to you what upselling means to us and how it's not this slimy, pushy coercive sales tactic. But it actually is the secret to giving people better, better options, and getting much higher closure rate than you've been getting lately. If you're just offering a single product. Before we get started, make sure you join the gym owners revolution, that group is on Facebook, that link is in our description. It's a resource for gym owners we put together that was the centerpiece of most of our conversations. That's going to be the spot where we're gonna have a lot of cool new challenges and products for you guys to try out for free because we'll get to kind of be our testing ground for a lot of these cool ideas we're working with. So we put a lot of good free information, a lot of cool tactics and stuff out there for free. So get in the gym owners revolution Facebook group. While you're at it, make sure you follow the gym owners podcast at the gym owners podcast on Instagram. Follow me on Instagram at Tyler effing stone. That's Tyler eff ironstone and John, how do they follow you?

John Fairbanks 01:09

Follow me on Instagram at Jay banks f L.

Tyler 01:13

If you want to contact us directly, you can shoot us an email at the dudes at Correct. That's it. I got that one. Right. All right, I got that one. Right. John,

John Fairbanks 01:23

you also can email us at

Tyler 01:29

Oh, that one, okay. We need more. They're not going to allow us to take your

John Fairbanks 01:35

kid there. It's just your dad or your mom and hack your and it will also go to your mom

Tyler 01:40

at hacker Fucking kind of rules.

John Fairbanks 01:48

Like actually no longer is there going to be the dudes that are your mom and hacker And we will appreciate you that much more. If you Yes, email addresses,

Tyler 01:57

guys, the upsell. The thing we've kind of run we've kind of run into this talking with some of the gym owners that we work with on a weekly basis is sometimes when people have difficulty selling they kind of say that I'm having a hard time I can't seem to upsell people, I can't seem to get people to buy more products from me or get to buy these higher levels of service. And we always, every time I hear that someone's having a hard time upselling the way they even put it like that. I know you're doing it wrong. I know 100% When you say I just can't seem to upsell people into my nutrition services or I can't seem to upsell people into my personal training or I can't seem to upsell people into accountability services or or upsell them into challenges or whatever it is you're trying to do. It's because you're framing this in your mind the wrong way and then you're executing it that same way and trust me nobody wants to be upsold that's a concept that is antiquated. It comes off as pushy . Do you want the undercoating on your car that's like shitty upselling and then how it is and how it's supposed to be.

John Fairbanks 03:04

It's because of bad definition or definition for years and honestly, it's not your fault for why folks are going to why you're thinking about this the wrong way Merriam Webster defines upsell as the meaning of upsells to try to convince a customer to purchase something additional or at a higher cost. And that's where the core of this is wrong.

Tyler 03:27

Try to convince him where you went with all right, exactly. Listen, it's 2022 bordering on 2023 Nobody wants to be convinced of anything anymore. Let's be honest, nobody wants to be convinced of anything about anything it's over that ship has sailed what people really want is choices it's all I want is a choice and I don't have to convince you to buy more stuff that you don't want all I try to do is present a diverse enough a wide enough range of choices that should be appealing to somebody who's generally you know fits your buying habits and needs if you're if you're if it's a gym owner should kind of fit the generic needs of most people that are going to join a gym and need some nutrition services wants some accountability maybe some more private attention maybe body scans and check ins and there's these there's there's not a really wide variety of things here. But when you have laid all those out as options now when people get into that they become like going into you ever you order pizza online, like through apps, and you realize actually like I almost hate I hate the build your own pizza feature. It's too many steps for me. I hate it. I am very by choice. I am varied by too many choices right? And I go to like I don't just give me the basic sauce and list let me start with the regular sauce in the cheese because I'm not a fucking animal. You know what I mean? Like I don't need a ranch anyway, so So we got all that to go through all those layers. You realize it's like 300 steps to just choose a pizza that I wanted. And that's too much choice. But not enough choice is you know, you get pepperoni or cheese. Right. So having some preassembled options like here's supreme, here's meat lovers, here is a lot about the thing, taco pizza fucking rules. But here's a taco pizza, here's your they're already kind of assembled. And it's here's the thing, and that way, I don't have to go through and go, I want a pizza with this. And this, that's it's going to be a bit too much for people. So the same thing with fitness. When someone comes in to join your gym. Or when you have that conversation, like what are you trying to accomplish? In that process? They usually are going to dish out a bunch of the reasons why they haven't accomplished their stuff. And very often it's Yeah, I don't eat right, I just, you know, I haven't, I just haven't been keeping up on my diet. You know, I never know everyone who I speak to almost always, if they've gotten in shape before, and it didn't stick when I asked them what they want to accomplish in the next few months. I'm not prodding them for any of this stuff. It's like, yeah, like to get back in shape. What do you mean back in shape? Right? It's like, well, you know, a few years ago, I got, you know, 25 pounds off, it was really eating right, but I just didn't stick to it. Oh, what they're what they're doing is they're just laying all this stuff out. So if you're, if your upsells are to just stand there to someone who comes in says I want a gym membership, and they just come in and they start going and you start going well, you know, we also have personal training do you want to do you want to join personal training as well, you know, you have group fitness says we could do some stop. Because it's not you it should not be like the Webster's Dictionary describes, it should not be you convincing somebody, it should be your product sitting there in front of them presented in a way. That is it literally reads to them, like the answers to all the concerns that they just did when they dumped out their purse when you ask them what they want to accomplish. If it's nutrition, if it's group fitness, I need some accountability, or they come in and the first choice is, you know, looking for personal training. If those upsell options are baked into an offer stack, an actual like well constructed offer stack where at the top option is all this shit man, this is a Cadillac. This is the Cadillacs kind of ship that kind of sailed down to mobile. I have to upgrade my terminology now because I think a lot of Cadillacs suck. Anyways, this version rocks, right, this is our top option because we can guarantee results here and this has boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, we do have these other options. What do you want to do and what do you think you want to do and let them look them over. But they know that top option, you just hit on everything that they said, because we constructed this thing with purpose. And then you don't have to drag them up. Because that term upsell seems like you're trying to convince them and shove them further up your sales ladder and further up in prices when it really if you just present them with choices. And they're going to choose the choice that fits their needs, not just their needs and wants. But their budget. And the main thing that differentiates this choice based offer system from a traditional upsell is that the actual choices are, they should want the top option. And that's the main thing, they may not be able to afford the top option. But somewhere in there, they're going to actually want to spend more than they can spend or whatever. And that's okay, that's how you know you've got it, right. If someone's gonna go, Oh, God, I really want that one, but I can't afford it. And they'll choose the one that they can afford. Because in this upsell thing, it involves choice as well as their budget, and their buying habits. And that's how you're able to make this choice based on our system work better than just trying to shove somebody towards spending more money with you, because that sucks. And by the way, you will close very few sales. If you're trying to just stand there and cold upsell, it makes your actual proposition suck. Because you don't have choices, you have one option, and you're going to try to show people towards something that maybe they don't want that blows.

John Fairbanks 08:52

And it all comes back to what you talked about, which is the best thing the way we build offers. And the way we teach how you craft and create this offer stack system is very purposeful to be able to handle fundamental psychology. So I want to give just a few of these pieces away. So your best offers the things that you can start to build into your upsell or whatever you want to be able to work with one, there's really three core categories that you want to start thinking about. And this is also how you should be framing these pieces to then be able to help your client or help the customer that's coming through this process with you. So the first thing that you build off of like your standard membership, the first style of offering something you should think about is what's a way they could do this faster. So the idea is that I can get done what I want to get done quicker. How can I get results quicker? In the fitness world, my first thing that jumps out in my mind of how I can get something done faster would be what personal training

Tyler 10:00

Personal Training. Yeah, if you're looking for physique results like out physique outcomes, weight loss outcomes, it's like, well, you know, you have to get your food right, or else, this is a thing that will take a little bit longer. So if we get that on point right now, the next 12 weeks are going to be much more successful, you'll be much more successful the next 12 weeks. And if you continue to be adrift, and we just introduced one new variable, which is fitness, versus we manage the input, we're sitting all right, and that's, so it makes things really easy to sell if you can talk to people like a person, and then you have the right options in front of them instead of and by the way, this does need to be a I don't like slide decks, I don't like that shit at all. But this should be a conversation that is like we put our stuff is done that goes to people on a tablet, you know, buttons, they navigate through, and they that way, the client is just looking at the menu, you know, an interactive menu and, and that piece, I think makes it much, much, much easier to sell. You've done this as a coach where, or as a gym owner, Coach, when you're trying to sell people on your products, if you're just trying to sell your services and try to upsell conversationally book you how hard it is to get all that information out of your mouth to somebody have them comprehend that with prices. And then also reiterate that in multiple layers to add more services and the price for each thing. You do need a visual menu, there's a reason you don't go to a restaurant and the server doesn't just start listing off all the shit and what it costs because it sucks. Like there's no fucking way that that's that that's going to fly at a restaurant. And it's so often with gym owners. That's exactly what we do when we sell as you're coming. Getting membership is this much. Do you want to see me? I want to see the squat rack like this. It's the best we can do.

John Fairbanks 11:41

And you're nervous, you're nervous, because you're probably not super great at sales, you really hate how it's felt whenever you've been sold in a slimy way. So because sales is a four letter word for you, you talk around in circles. We see this all the time, this idea where you add a bunch of words, when it's just say the thing is, we say this all the time, we have that simple five step process of how you can then make a sale through our system. And then the literal last advice that we have is shut the fuck up.

Tyler 12:12

Just shut up.

John Fairbanks 12:13

Don't Don't fucking speak anymore. Because you will talk your way out of a goddamn sale, you could have made the sale back at step two. But you keep fucking talking and you're going to talk your way out of it.

Tyler 12:25

As a guy who talks too much. There's nothing I hate more than talking to somebody who talks too much. It's true. It's like man, I gotta deal with this more for her every day. Now. Every day, I gotta come in and listen to this blowhard. No. And by the way, we're just kind of mocking you here. But like, as Jim was to one, you're busy, okay. And very often unless you have a very solid system, to funnel all of your leads to you or to your salesperson or your sales team. However, you're managing, you know, these sales conversations, no matter what's going to happen at some point, somebody's still just going to walk in the door. And those are ones where like, if you don't have a system and a visual menu and a visual process, and by the way, a process that you know, that you're really familiar with, it's efficient, by the way, you should be able to get in and out of all sales meetings in 15 minutes, 20 minutes tops, and have still maximize every opportunity, every single opportunity for them to spend more money, then for them to choose to spend the most amount of money that they want to spend with you on the highest quality premium services that you have to offer. Everybody should get the opportunity to buy a Cadillac off. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. And in doing so they're very often someone will come in and they're gonna interrupt you while you're with a personal training client. Or they're going to interrupt you. This thing always happens to me because we were right downtown. I'd be in there working out. It's like a couple hours of downtime. I'd be in there just working out music cranks just me like it's all I could do sometimes to not lock the door. Because you just would get interrupted all the time. But it's an opportunity. I don't know what to say, right? You know. And, by the way, a pro tip, I started working out somewhere else. I would train at a different gym in town because I couldn't. I just couldn't. I would have to know that I'm not going to get interrupted. My workout was a priority. I just couldn't do it at my facility because people come in. And by the way, if my clients come in, they have questions. I owe them the respect enough to answer I can't say fuck off. I'm busy like Yeah. But when people come in off the street and you're getting interrupted, you want this to be efficient. So you want to have a process that you can kneel on, that you can lean on so that way you're interrupted, you're busy, you don't have to come up, put your shirt on and walk up to the person and go Hi, what do you want and then you because your heads not clear. You're not in sales mode, you're in this way you don't need to be. So you need to have a system that gives people choices because it helps you as much as it helps guide them.

John Fairbanks 14:45

Because if you don't have that system, you are tactically recreating whatever your system is every new sale opportunity you get and that's why it can feel like your head is a little bit like a bag of cats because it's just all Man, I was kind of grasping at whatever. And you're gonna go all over in the over talk. And then you are showing them the squat racks. And they haven't even offered them anything like they don't even know what you have available. And kind of all over the place. Having all this work done ahead of time. And doing the work that it takes to build this out first, then makes every interaction that you have for the rest of time that much smoother. So I was saying, there's three different ways of building those offers that are starting to reframe the things that you have available in your business, three different ways. The first one we say is you help them get results faster. That very next thing is of how another style or category of services to frame the man is going to be the next thing and think about this, it's like it's, once you do this, so you now are doing acts, you already know, because you've done the mental exercise, or you've trained hundreds or 1000s of people for years, which is, what's the next thing and you and I actually did this Tyler, as we were starting to put together the best services, as we were thinking about when you and Megan and a bunch of other personal trainers started working, which was, I don't think we should separate, say, accountability, away from nutrition, like those two things really should go hand in hand, because we're finding that it is the next thing or it is the thing that they need in order to make this successful. So we just combined those two services as one.

Tyler 16:25

Yeah, it just makes it more premium. Someone wants one without the other. They don't get it because I don't want my nutritious shit to fall flat. That's a big one. Yeah,

John Fairbanks 16:34

the third piece of so we help them get results faster, we then anticipate what's the next thing they need? The best example I had was like a real world example for that, as well as always being like, if you're going to try and help sell people like you can sell them bread. And then if they then upsell them fucking peanut butter or jelly does, now they're gonna make a sandwich. The third piece is going to be that concierge level service. So it's going to be like, what is the best thing, the most hands on piece where they can get that additional help? And he kind of threw the kitchen sink at them? Yeah, if we think about the nutrition service that is out there. This is now well, yeah, you can fucking just give them macros.

Tyler 17:17

Or you can give them full meal plans. And you can do what I do very often if we sell them a walk to the grocery store with him, we'll do that service. And so like that kind of upgrade a thing is me really, truly teaching you and not just pointing you in a direction. And that's that and that piece, I would said let's let's I mean, 90 more than 90% of the clients that I work with, in personal training, choose to spend money on nutrition services, more than

John Fairbanks 17:41

90% that that's not hyperbole. Yeah, this is not

Tyler 17:43

hyperbole, it's by the way, it's literally like 96, between me and my wife, that event that within the first year we'll spend money on nutrition, almost always. Because the truth is the ones that are doing nutrition get results faster, and then the other ones after a couple months ago. All right, I want to get this ball rolling, I'm getting split, you know, and they just end up choosing it. And of those I would say about a third will choose the other third of those who choose nutrition will choose the upgraded version. And by the way, that one is even more expensive. And that's where I'll take you to the grocery store, I'll do some high specificity stuff for you in the beginning, we're like, we'll get you very much to a baseline, and then we're gonna hit it hard. So you can get your results fast that kind of blends all these concepts together. So we're gonna go real hard for about 810 weeks where it'll be strict, and I'll help you with covering a lot of those variables, grocery store tour, the strict part, and then we kind of go out into something more sustainable after that. So it's a longer, longer commitment, a little bit, but it's very, very, very specific. And this way, they just don't hardly have to think and the results for the process of giving them the results is kind of baked into that I'm not just giving you more shit, it's like, this is how we're gonna get it for you faster. This also covers some of your needs, which is I don't know what to make that's going to fit all this shit. And, and by the way, I don't really know much of that either. You just again, give them more choices, like here's a few things to choose from that fit this. And that's all you're really doing is you're just painting them in, you're painting them in a box, but it's a box that is very, very has a very abundant amount of choices for them. And not too many, not a distracting amount, but just enough you just it's a comfy little spot for them to be

John Fairbanks 19:23

and there's no convincing in any of these steps. And that's by design. Because this is not this is not saying I want the heated steering wheel or I want the moonroof or I want the 24 inch rims or whatever it is. Those are all things I hate. Those are the things that I want to have. That's nice. But at the end of the day, the car still fully functions like it's not going to be any better because those things exist. Maybe even Sarah will really Yes, but my point being is because you've built out these upsells because you've built them out in your service based industry to be built true Usually around helping either the customer get the client get faster results, or be able to do the very next thing they know they don't even realize that they need and you already know that they need or really give them that real white glove treatment service. It's now they want it exactly no convincing,

Tyler 20:18

you know that they want it, they should want it. That's the piece that took me the longest to learn when we were implementing this type of sales stack system and other service industries, right. So on the heating and air conditioning side, it was the piece that I never never registered with until I had to like actually flying out to freakin Georgia. I went through all the sales training with the guys to finally be able to come back, get all our guys on board. And that was the thing is like, you're not trying to convince somebody that have this platinum option that cost five times there's 10 times as much money sometimes is the base as the base option, all you're going to do is present it and what's going to happen is they're going to want what they want. Right, and if they crave peace of mind, and if they crave not having any of these surprises, and they want the comfort and whatever wherever their budget fits, because the price is important on this too, you shouldn't have this conversation without the price. Because buying habits will just dictate they'll fill in based on their budget and buying habits. Meaning if they come in and they can spend and they're willing to spend 800 bucks right now with you. Like if that's there's a ceiling somewhere in there and their ability to do it, the amount of money they have, or whatever they're gonna look at the pricing almost first, they're gonna ignore the things you said about the services, sometimes, maybe the services that will connect with him very, very effectively, and it will draw them up out of their budget. And they may want it but can't afford it. But they'll go right to the budget next. And then they're just gonna go to what's the most I could spend you do this when you go to buy cars, I don't know how you shop. I'm not buying new vehicles. But if I'm buying a used vehicle, one of the things that I do is how much money can I afford to spend, and I'm going to spend that much money. I had never gone and bought, like if I had a $10,000 plan to buy a car, I bought a $10,000 car, I didn't go buy a $7,000 car. Sure ever, not even once. If so, why? Because I want the most value that I can get for my money. And if this is the money I'm willing to spend. Now let's find the best deal and I'm gonna push it right up. So I get the most invested vehicle that I can get for my money. And that's very, very, very important in this is that their buying habits are just gonna take them wherever they can afford wherever they fall. And from there, you know what they're gonna say, I want this one. And you don't have to say which one you want, you don't have to go? Do you want to join our gym, this process of having it in front of them allows them to just choose and it puts the ball in their court. And that's it. And if you do this, right, with a presentation system that we use, right? Everything that's on there is a choice that involves them doing business with you. So what you're kind of doing is distracting them with these four or five different choices that all fit the things that they walked in for, right all their specific needs, their specific goals, they're going to be rattling around in that world in their head, while they're looking at this framing their budget, their bank account their needs, their wants, their future, the future outcomes they're hoping to get, and none nowhere on that page, as they say, or you can just tell me no, if you don't want to do business with me, nowhere on that page is out there. So it keeps them in the world of moving forward without you having to do it without you having to say so do you because when you don't have something like this, your sales system is. So do you want to sign up with me? Do you want to join my gym? Or do you not want to turn it to a yes or no? I was thinking Tim Dylan would always say it was so Yes, sir. Yes, yeah, I want to Yes, sir. Yes, equation here. And it works great. Because they choose what they want, or they'll say I want this, but you know what, I can't afford it. And I gotta walk out. Most of the people are gonna say no, because they can't afford it. They just can't afford it. But tell you what, what's the bottom pay? What's the bottom option on all of these offsets that we do, John? For most people, it's just your reg plane membership and irregular bass opera. So you can , these people always have the choice to spend the least amount of money as possible with you. Same amount they can spend with you is enough, right? It's either you

John Fairbanks 24:08

win or you win big and no is immediately we know if someone is struggling with some of these pieces, that they aren't following the process or they don't have a process that's to the level that we have built. When we hear those struggles or we hear that folks are not, we had somebody that was inside of our program that was selling nothing but that base foundational dish, their core offer, that base offer that they've sold forever. And it's like, what are the sales that we already immediately are able to tell whether or not they're actually doing the sales system they're supposed to be doing? Because no one just wants to come and show up and be part of a club of people like it should be about them as an individual and What they want to be able to achieve, and if you don't have those discussions, it's very obvious what the results look like.

Tyler 25:05

And I can tell immediately based on the math, the distribution of which people are spending money with you, I can tell how your sales process is, if you want to test me test me, right. But we can, I can do it very specifically, if you're if you're, if you're not giving people choices, I can tell you for sure, you are leaving practically, I would say you will get almost nearly a 60 to 80% increase in your average ticket sale, for sure. If you offer five choices, total, instead of just one your base. That's a guarantee partner. I mean, I don't know that I haven't seen anyone come in under 50%. So if your average ticket price is let's say, you're selling $200 memberships, it's your average ticket price is gonna be $200. When you close, right, for the most part, adding these other services, and hopefully these are easier to fulfill and scalable, right, you should pretty much be at 350. If by just giving people the choice, that's it, your average ticket price will go up by 50%. For sure. And sometimes depending on if you're adding, especially if you're adding this up to how you package your personal training and personal training, it's even more than that. Because people will commit harder because they want they actually will be willing to prepay for more upfront. In personal training, you can practically triple your closing price if you're just kind of doing some procession stuff. But I want to go into John, one of the things is, if you're having a hard time selling your nutrition services, it's because you're not offering it. And if you're offering your idea of offering it is mentioning it in passing in a conversation with them, without having it exist in something that they could look at with a price and a description. You're fucking up. Because again, 90% of your people should be buying nutrition from you. Absolutely. And here's a piece we want to talk about as well, before we go, the upsell matters, the upsell matters a lot. What matters a lot as well is the down sell. Right? And I'm gonna keep this in the wheelhouse first of the new client sales, right? a new person comes in, you know, I just can't afford it. So you're just a personal trainer. So you know, I don't I don't do group fitness. But if I have somebody that comes in and wants to do personal training for me and can't afford it simply can't afford it, right? Well, there's not much I can do about that. I'm not gonna coach you for less money, right? And if someone comes in and if your budget for a personal trainer is like $150 A month or $200, like who are you getting to coach you multiple times a week for that nobody. So their expectation is that if they can't afford this very basic, basic service, they're just kind of delusional, or they're just kicking the tires, which is a thing a lot of people do and fitness. So don't let people kick the tires, waste your time and walk away. And that doesn't mean you'd be pushy. It means you down, sell your nose and down sell it down selling somebody when they tell you know, because of money. It's very, very, very easy. Because all these things that you have listed in your as upsells that are stacked vertically. You can also have simply each one listed on like an ala carte menu as well for someone tells you no, you know what, I can't afford it. They just lied about it. They're not telling you they can't afford it until you've done what got them to tell you what they want to accomplish till the next few minutes. And if I told you I want to lose some weight this next few months, but I can't afford to hire you as a personal trainer, what they've done is open the door and say do you have something that can help me lose weight that cost less than your personal training. And, man, perfect. Tell you what, you know what if you want to get started with weight loss, we can work on the nutrition thing right away, it's going to cost you this much up front. It's way more affordable. And you don't need to start working out. It'd be nice if you started working out, maybe you work out on your own. But you definitely can start getting big time results if you start fixing your food. And as a matter of fact, I recommend that most people who work with me directly start working on their nutrition anyways. So it's a great way for you to start if you want to. And then if they can't, if they can't afford that, then they're fucking crazy. Because if you couldn't, if you could afford personal training and you can't afford nutrition, then I don't know why you're talking to anybody. But at least you've been efficient in that process and maximize your opportunities all the way across the board.

John Fairbanks 28:59

15 minutes,

Tyler 29:00

15 minutes.

John Fairbanks 29:02

It's every time that we hit like it's when you have great examples of folks that we've worked with where they hit a 45 minute mark, and never do you close a sale that goes 45 minutes long. It doesn't happen.

Tyler 29:17

Yeah, if you do, it's just if you do, you could have closed it 30 minutes sooner.

John Fairbanks 29:22

Without a doubt, and most of the time, it's because either it was too much fluff or too much walking around the thing. Get down to business, you have to understand that if somebody walks into your gym, they come to sit down with you to bare their souls, empty their purse, and talk about why they're there. They are there to spend money. They've hurdled every possible objection in their own minds to show up so do them the decency by giving them the option to be able to work with you.

Tyler 29:53

Yep. And you don't have to be charming. You don't have to make them like you the most, you don't have to be the funniest, most interesting, most racked up person, if you get right down to business, make it about them. And then the services you have right in front of you right in front of them that can help get them the results they want. That's what they're there for. They're not there to find a new friend. And if they are, you want to fucking work with most likely the type of person that walks in on a sales meeting and wants to tell you 45 minutes long, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, and they want to like defend everything that they've done in fitness and they want i Dude, I've had some of these sales conversations with people before I was running the system. fucking suck, do some because listen, my husband is a strength coach down at the university. So I kind of know my stuff. And I was like, Listen, my wife's that. My wife's dad was a heating and air conditioning professional, she doesn't know fuck all about heating and air conditioning, I was a heating and air conditioning professional, she doesn't know fuck all about this, I appreciate that your husband knows how to lift, I don't fucking care, then you should hire him. And I'm guessing the reason he doesn't want to work with you is because you're probably the fucking worst to. But there's a lot of that shit where people will come in, and they'll just want to tell you how much they know. Or they just want to tell you they're smarter than you are, they want to tell you Well, I still want to eat this way. as well. Eating this way is kind of why you are here looking to make changes like you need to actually. So anytime you allow people to engage in like, a lot of back and forth that's not about their wants and your services, you're fucking up and you let the crazies take a lot of your time because a reasonable person won't. A reasonable person is someone who will sit there while you derail it. And you take it to a bunch of nonsense because you don't know how to get down to business. A crazy person, when you don't get to keep them on track. They're just gonna spiral out of control and be like, well, I get to eat whatever I want to eat. I mean, I don't understand why I came across me. I can eat whatever I do shakes, I do shakes that I buy from the store on the way and they told me this and I'm like, I don't care. You mean, that's a real real thing. If you let the inmates run the asylum. It's a big problem. So you're there. You're the professional, you're the ones with the services. They're the ones with the wants, establish their wants, make them define their terms of success. What would it take if you know what you would define as a successful endeavor in the next 12 weeks? Well, I like to lose this much. I'd like to get my food in order. I'd like to, you know, figure out my way around the gym. Perfect. Here's what I got for you top options, got all this stuff? It's really awesome. We got these other ones. What do you think there's no being slick that I'm looking over Shut up. Because the guy who's talking is the guy who's losing. And that's it. So having a system and upselling is not a slimy thing. You need a system for upsells though you can't just you can't just try to shove people up a ladder it's just that that doesn't work people don't like it it's brutal. And you're gonna hate if you hate sales. It's because that's how you've been doing it. So if you want to get better at it, shoot us a message we got systems we can sell you Yeah, I'd prefer you to work with us in the gear Academy before we do that stuff. Because we do that stuff that's included in the gear Academy where we go through and we teach you how to sell, we build your sales app and everything for you. That's kind of the best way to do it. We can just build a sales app for you and turn you loose but I prefer to work with people over the long haul for a full year and I think there's a lot more value in that. And frankly for you it comes out better that you get a lot more value in the long run than just paying a bunch of money for us to run the sales system. So we can do them both whatever fits your budget. So if you want to get involved with some of that, shoot us a message at any of the things links are in description. Follow the show on Instagram at the gym owners podcast make sure you get in the Facebook group link is in the description. That is the gym owners revolution, a resource for gym owners. Follow me on Instagram at Tyler effing stone. That's Tyler eff ironstone and John,

John Fairbanks 33:29

follow me over on Instagram at Jay banks, f L.

Tyler 33:33

Excellent. Thanks a lot for listening to everybody. We'll see you next week.

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