The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/How to NOT be SLEAZY and Still Make Sales

How to NOT be SLEAZY and Still Make Sales

Monday, March 06, 2023

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gym, people, business, work, clients, sell, members, tyler, owners, system, pay, money, john, sucks, sales, product, fitness, run


  • ​The sharks that are hunting you as a gym owner - 0:02
  • ​Why you need to have a plan to grow your business - 7:13
  • ​The Devil and the Crossroads - 13:12
  • ​Organic evolution is the opposite of predatory - 17:56
  • ​The worst part of the sales process is the offer - 23:08
  • ​When you have to deliver the offer to someone, you really have to deliver it - 28:09
  • ​The old sales tactics that don’t exist anymore - 33:16
  • ​The biggest cut you’re going to get from this system - 37:41
  • ​How to identify these problems and what to do instead - 42:06
  • ​The third thing you need to look for in your business - 45:24
  • ​Why you have to level up - 49:52


Tyler 00:02

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the gym owners part owners podcast. Great fumbling of that intro guys, we're mumbling our way through this, because this week there was some stuff I want to talk about today. And I'm gonna get a little hot about this one too. Guys, there are some sharks in the water, there's been sharks in the water, the fitness business for a long time, we've talked about bad bad gyms, unethical gyms on ethical coaches and a lot of that stuff in the past. Today, we want to talk about the sharks that are haunting you as a gym owner. Okay, so we want to get into how to identify snake oil salesmen, how to identify bad business consultants, bad business advice, all that other stuff that's out there. And we're gonna go right at all the shit that we hate, I guess what seems to be the nature of this show, we should probably come up with some sort of good vibes segment. Instead of just this, it just be like, Man, this sucks. And this sucks, and this sucks.

John Fairbanks 00:52

But puppy.

Tyler 00:55

Before you can worry about being great. Stop sucking. And I think that's a good starting point for you. So we just want to make sure that you avoid just running at bullshit, just head on into it. And then you can worry about really being aligned with your mission and all that jazz. So yeah, how to spot a snake oil salesmen for you and your business, how to make sure that you're not getting took, how do you make sure that they're not taking you down this road that your business isn't going to survive, you're the soul of your business isn't going to survive. So we're gonna get into all that stuff. In today's episode, before we start, make sure you go to the gym owners revolution Facebook group, the link is in our description. You can also go to gym owners, we got weekly blog posts going up there. That's also where all the episodes of the podcast and our services are consulting, service and product, the gear Academy, which is where we get in, and we start getting big time milestones for your business. And we started making sure you start hitting these marks from week to week to week, everything from sales systems to marketing, we don't do all of it for you, we do plenty of stuff for you, but we're gonna in there, we're gonna help you level up your skill set, make sure that you become better and more capable as a gym owner. So that then you can own your success and own your progress as things go forward. So get in there, the gym owners If you want to start working with us to help you with your gym, you want to work with us directly. Follow at the gym owners podcasts on Instagram, you can follow me at Tyler effing stone this title eff ironstone you can follow John at

John Fairbanks 02:20

Jay Banks of L on Instagram.

Tyler 02:23

John, let's get to it. Alright, guys, there's a lot of fitness business consultants out there, there's a ton. And the most common thing that John and I see, when we're seeing these aside from lofty promises and maybe some misguided priorities. The main thing that we see is that they want your gym to become as not probably what you open your gym for. And I want us to stay kind of rooted in that. Because that's the thing that's whole conversation is based upon. I hope if you're listening to this podcast, or if you have ever had any interest in working with John and I directly, you better give a shit about your business and like what it actually means to you to your members and your community. Like it should have a soul it should have a mission, it should have something and it doesn't all have to be fucking fluff and woo. But like there's, there better be something of substance there that you actually care about. Because again, we're here to help people turn a passion into a profession. We're not here to take your soulless mathematical business equation and just ramp it up, okay, it's just not the thing that we really care to do. But we can really take your passion, turn it into a profession, and then turn the business up. So you can still make really good money while maintaining the success and the vision that you had when you started a gym. That's super important. That's the reason John and I do what we do instead of doing what everyone else does. Just what everyone else out there. John, what's the number one promise that we see?

John Fairbanks 03:48

Always? Oh, more than 30 members and 30 days? Yeah, yeah. 34. Members,

Tyler 03:53

members, members, members, members members, right. And that's fine. Right? You need more members. This is the thing when we work with gym owners, you know, we help them to help them get more members. That's like literally the mission. Right? But we've started this since the beginning of John and I started this companies, you don't need more members, though, do you need more money? isn't so if you have to choose 50 more members or make as much money as 50 more members start with the money, because then you can have an easier job finding helping and identifying more people and getting more people in. But your system needs to be able to support more members. It needs to be able to maximize the opportunity that you have from delivering those people to your doorstep, right can you actually offer them a higher level of service, the higher level of service that they want? Not just coercively upselling them? Can you do that? Or are you just selling a fixed product? And if that's this is where a lot of people if you're a gym owner, you're only selling a single product, you're just selling a fat membership. You don't have the opportunity for somebody to come and spend big money with you. It's okay, if that's what you got. Now. You should figure out how you can put together you know Some offers that are more valuable. And not that the one you have is not valuable, it just has a set value. And that's probably lower, and some higher value products. So when you start going with this process, we don't want you to just start getting members, I want you to start getting members that can pay you big money that want to pay you big money, you also have you able to sell them big money stuff, and more. Most importantly, the thing I hope your gym's mission is rooted in is that you can help your clients become successful. If you can't, what's the fucking point? Like? Like, are you no better or worse than you? Well, you're just as bad as all of the bad in the fitness industry. The fitness industry has been, in my opinion, extremely unethical, it's lost a lot of trust. It's now confusing, because everybody says that their thing is the only way, there's a lot of people that have been betrayed, there's a lot of bait and switch stuff that goes on that these kinds of snake oil salesmen who are coming to you, which we'll get into, are trying to get you to push. So can your clients get results? Can you get the results that they want? Is that a factor at all, in the things that these other guys who are talking to you, as a gym owner, are wanting you to do and if they never mentioned your clients success, or your clients desires, or the things that are in the way of them your clients becoming successful? Or how do you make sure that you're checking the quality control matters. And we don't want you to just be a martyr delivering great results for no fucking money and starving. That's the thing, we definitely don't want that either. But it has to matter, or else your shit isn't about this the truth, it's not valuable, it has no value if you're just taking people's money via some bait and switch bullshit. And then you just kind of turn and burn the room. Your Business sucks as much as every other terrible fitness business out there. You're just a Fit Tea salesman at that point, you're just taking their money and it doesn't work, you go and whatever. And the problem is your product can work. If you care to make it work, if you actually pay attention to Systemising the success of your clients, as much as you're worried about Systemising your leads and CRM and shit.

John Fairbanks 07:13

You started your gym, because well, if hopefully, right everybody that's listening to this and you've been listening to us long enough is that it's you started your gym because you did want to help people. And so for us that's like, that's because that's such a foundational principle. It's whoever wants to then work with you, whoever wants to be able to start to help you scale up and do better or make more money? If, if there's no question of art, is your product position to be able to do well or you've been doing well or you've been serving your people great, then they're probably not. They probably have ulterior motives. Yes, like, so what is it then that they're selling to you? Because they're trying to make it sound like you need more members? Because in the back of your mind, it's, I do great. I do really, really well with the members I have ever met. How often do we hear Tyler, the guys that we work with? I just need somebody to walk through the door because I know that if I can talk to them, I know I can help them. Like I know that I can help them. And so what happens is, is that really altruistic mindset that you have is just chum in the water. You're just like chumming up the water and the sharks like, Oh, you want to help people and like you're a good person, like deep down and you want to do these for all the right reasons. Well, how can we take that and a totally use it against you to just turn you into some horrible abortion,

Tyler 08:45

the consultants that are seeing the business? What do we call it? Is it all consultants? I hate that term? What are they? I know, businesses that are trying to get your gym to do business with right consultancies, even the term half are so fucking software promises,

John Fairbanks 09:01

right? But

Tyler 09:04


John Fairbanks 09:06

but like it's app,

Tyler 09:09

yeah, the people that are trying to get your attention are good fundamentally, the one thing that might be about marketing that matters, right is it needs to connect to your emotion. Okay, so that's what it does, it's going to connect to your immediate need. And it's going to pull in the fact that man, I am good, I can do great if I had 30 Holy shit, if I had 30 new members a month, do the math that's 300 New, how long let's be real. If you got 30 new members a month, how long until your gym is fucked. And that system is built. If that system is sustainable, let's fundamentally go at this 30 members a month. So you're gonna have 360 members a year from now in your gym supporting 260 more members right now. Like just as over the course of next year, would you have a plan for that? As long as your attrition is really high. So that's in by the way, that is what these systems are built upon. on. And that's what I was just getting at John is that your attrition has to be high because your gym will break. It's just what it is. And you cannot get into this situation thinking that 30 new members every month not leads members every month, if you're getting 30 new people signed up every month, you're probably losing 28 of them by month two, or three. And then at the end of the year, you're still probably back about where you were, but you got a lot of turnover money.

John Fairbanks 10:28

All fundamentally, like from a business standpoint, right? Like Tyler, if you and I were like, No, this is what this is what we believe in now, we believe in 30 members a month, and this is what we're going to do. We would we would have to find we would have to find so many clients. Because at the end of the day, just like you said, Okay, well, fuck nobody can handle if you have a building, whatever your gym is that can hold how many people they can hold? There's a lot of gyms out there, they're gonna hold more than 300 people.

Tyler 10:57

Not if you're coaching you. Yeah, yeah.

John Fairbanks 11:00

So you're that gym. So it's like, well, great, then that means you and I are building a business model. That means that we cannot work with a client longer than 90 days. And then we got to go find somebody new, like that's a whole. So because that would be a horseshit business model. Something tells me that that's not the model, then, yeah, there's something else that's there.

Tyler 11:23

So there it is either, they need you to become a turnover in business, because they're going to turn and burn you once you figure out that that doesn't work. First off, just so you know, the other side of that piece. And this is so businesses that have been out there big players in this industry, the thing they want you to do is use all their systems, they want you to pay them lots of money, implement their software, get familiar with their method of fulfilling the service, whatever that is really no attention to client results. They want your gym to become a very specific way. And you know why? Because they want to buy it from you. I don't know if you know this. But that's what's out there. That's what's at the end of a lot of this stuff, if we're going to come in, you're going to pay us a fortune. We're going to give you what you think you want at the price of your soul. It's your business's soul, it is a Faustian bargain 100% Oh, you have all these members. Great. And now you got this soulless thing that you don't like anymore. But the money isn't good enough, kind of. So what do you do? Cash fuck out and walk away. Because of the same people that took the sole of your business, they're gonna write you a check to get you the fuck out. And then it's theirs. Okay, that is that is what happens at the end of this. Just so you know, those things being pursued all the way to the end? That's what it is. They give you an exit strategy. Every business should have one. But do you want this one? Do you want to sell your soul? Do you want to sell all your reputation, everything that you build, your fucking reputation matters, especially in your community is should the if it doesn't matter to you, if matter if doing good business, delivering a good product doesn't matter to you, John aren't for you, that's for sure. But like at the end of this road, you've got what you thought you wanted, you realize you didn't want it sort of bait and switch and then they then they're going to lowball you out of your own fucking business. Because it's not your business anymore. It's theirs. And you didn't pay any attention to it. You it's these moments where like, you go and you look at it and go shit, how did it get like this?

John Fairbanks 13:18

Because the devil, the devil is improved. Tyler right. At the turn of the century, right? Right, the devil meets Robert Johnson at the crossroads, and he signs his soul over so he can play the guitar, right? And he does that one night, and signs the contract. And now he's a fucking whiz at playing the guitar and creates the blues, the devil realizes that you cannot just have it be overnight. Not everybody is going to look you dead in the eye and be like, yep, Sign me up. I don't need this thing. So it happens a little bit at a time. It's slow, it's the slow drip where a piece of your soul goes every time that you bring it in. Oh, it's just downloading, just downloading these. It's our best email sequence just download, just wipe it copy paste it.

Tyler 14:11

This is a death by 1000 cuts. And let's talk about what those cuts are. John, the first one you mentioned, they're just gonna write an email copy for you, by the way, they're not writing it for you. If something and here's the worst thing about these guys is the thing I do in business, this thing you should do as well. Everything you do, you should plan to do in a way that you can replicate and scale up. So can I do this for 10 businesses, but I do this for 10 clients right? The first time you do something you get paid to do it well for a client or group for a new program, whatever, get paid to do it first. So then you make it and then you just copy paste that and then you do that again and again again and all your labor that you had to do in creating these email sequences and marketing and all this the follow up for all this stuff is done. Now you should be refining that stuff and turning it into your brand and to further it's more effective and all this other stuff but They don't care about that for you, what they're going to do is a thing, they're going to give you a thing that they only did once. Only did it once. And they've copied and pasted it for every other fucking place out there. And it doesn't have you in it. It doesn't have your clients in mind, it doesn't have your gym's vibe or mood. And I'm okay with you not having to write every word that comes out of your email thing. I'm totally okay with it if you want to hire copywriters or chat with us GPT whatever, at least you can have some quality control on it, but if they want you that first cut, they let them speak for you. They don't even care. They're not even there's not a moment in his for them where they go, I want this to be right. No, it's and not only that, it's not even as effective as it can be. That's the worst thing I think in my opinion.

John Fairbanks 15:44

Okay, it was 10 fucking years ago, and it was

Tyler 15:46

good enough to go out once and it got positive enough results, there's no optimization that's gone on here. So that's what they're gonna do with that. That's the first cut. That's what's gonna happen. They're gonna start running ads for you. The second cut, when you start having other people run ads for you, the ad content, the pictures, the images, all this stuff, it's not in line with what you are and what you want. It's in line with not the last gym or the last 10 gyms they worked with. It's aligned with the first person that ever paid them to do these things. It's pure copy paste bullshit. And it fucking sucks. It sucks really bad. And the people that are in your gym, now we're gonna go what is going on here? Okay, now I'm okay with your social media being directed at new members, almost exclusively new potential people almost exclusively, right? Totally Okay, with that same with your ads, of course it should be. But know that the people that are in your gym, are proud about it. That's important, it's important to know, and that it does matter to them. That is to be sure you've done this, try to change anything you do in your gym. From a coaching standpoint, or a classes standpoint, or philosophically, there's always a lot of pushback, because people like what they're there because they like it. And the cost of acquiring new clients is high. So you should work very hard to keep the ones you have meaning. If you get a bunch of people who are here to really like this place because it's real coaching. And it's real fitness. And next thing you know, you're running ads for fucking weight loss pills and shit like this, or you're sending emails for fat burners and all this other stuff that hey, man, if you're into it, fine. I'm cool with it. But if it's the opposite of your, like, holistic, we do things the right way. Let's just worry about nutrition and fixing your habits and good. Like if you're that guy. All of a sudden your people start seeing this other shit done the wrong way. And you can sell, sell, sell supplements, you can sell a lot of them and not sell them that way. Right. But the moment people start seeing this now they're like, it's like being married to a person. And then one day you look at him, you're like, I don't know, what is this? And that's what happens to the people in your gym, they start seeing that's the second cut. Go ahead, get done good.

John Fairbanks 17:56

It happens because there's an ebb organically, you can do things well in your gym, and we've all been able to successfully implement new programs or new ideas and do things. And man, it flows so effortlessly, and it flows so well. And your people are super fucking pumped about every single thing that you do, because you are organically evolving together. And what you've done is what you're doing, if you get caught into the sequence of this is, if we are describing something you've been caught in before, or something you've been looking at. What happens is, if you are actively evolving over here, not in the eyes of your people. And nothing makes sense. Because it's because there's a foreign invader. Yeah, right. There's a foreign object that has inserted itself, and it's a cancer. And it starts to duplicate and what happens is that cancer starts to duplicate and it's just with you, as the gym or is just duplicating in you and then you insert that shit into your community and often everybody else, it's kind of like whoa, like this feel is this. What is this? This doesn't feel right. And it's the organism trying to be like, hey, there's a problem right there. Like, this doesn't feel right. And it quickly is and it's because, like you said, it's, it's the and oftentimes as it should be. It is the literal antithesis of what you've always been about.

Tyler 19:25

Yeah. And this is the thing, John, we've talked about this, like I am all about, saying kind of fuck you to a lot of the supplement industry. Absolutely. Because it's been unethical, it's been predatory all these things. I am also a huge advocate of selling supplements in your gym because you should because it's your job with be these people's trust, to sell to provide them with something that a service product that they are seeking that they do want that they will buy from someone other than you so it's your job to make sure as you're if you're the person who's actually helping them with their health and helping them with this assess that you make sure that you vet the places and you provide a good fucking with your stamp on it a good alternative to the shit that's out there or they're aimless searching of Google. It's important. But yeah, this way that they sell this stuff is fucking terrible. So you can you can go Yeah, I should start selling supplements for all the reason Tyler said, then you go about it their way, because you can go to the far extreme of this and you can just say yes, or taking fat burning pills, please, all you're going to do is get fucking sped the fuck up all day and you won't be hungry. Your skin's gonna be beet red, and you're going to be sweating and your hearts gonna fucking race all day. But hey, the weight comes off who?

John Fairbanks 20:39

What the reason is right is again, why are they why? Like, you have to ask why they are doing what they're doing? Why am I? Why are they telling me to do something? If you are their supplement company that we like Tyler, write some that we liked a lot. And they are actually ones that will even recommend to the folks that we work with in the gear Academy, if they want to be able to bring in supplements in there, which we recommend as well. But when you look at a supplement company, if they're the ones that are giving you the email, copy the social media copy, if they're giving you the imaging, if they're giving you almost turnkey, all the content that you need. Why are they doing that? They're doing that. So you will sell fucking supplements. And they want you to sell a lot of supplements. Now, are they asking the important questions of how does this fit with your community? How do people agree with this? Do people like stimulants in their pre workouts? How does everybody feel about pre workout all the questions that you are going to know that if you check your morals, if you check everything that you know about your community, in your gym, and everything you built, if you check that out the door because you see a price tag, and this is just a means to an end, which is I want to make more money, it will very quickly it's no it is no longer you and it really is just another piece that's gone. And the most dangerous thing that we've seen Tyler's when it comes from one company, is if one company has done great, and they have gobbled up all these different sections of the industry, and they have a one stop shop and they can turn key every single piece. You are, as you said very quickly, you used to be 100%, Jim XYZ and Acme Illinois, right? But you are now 50% Because they are writing your emails for you, if they are running your ads for you. And now they also are giving you all the things that you need to sell the supplements for you.

Tyler 22:51

Now they are putting things in your client's body like Come the fuck on. It's crazy. And you've had no say in this, that's it's nuts. It really is nuts. John, the next cut is your offer, your sales process. That's a big one. And this is a thing that we see all the time, because they're gonna put a bunch of swipe files, they're gonna give you Google Slides, all these places do it, something for you to sit down on. And those things by the way, they're not the worst, if you make them if you like to have a visual resource in front of you, we use an app that literally just walks you through your products that we that we designed, we custom build your products in. And there's not a bunch of pictures or fluffy punchlines and jokes and stuff to move through. But sometimes it's good to have a little bit of a crutch to lean on. And so what we use as the crutch that we lean on is literally your client's wants and needs what they want to do, get into the offer and let them put it in front of them make a final decision instead of just standing there pretending like we talk to people one on one with fucking PowerPoint going on behind us. That's crazy. If I ever sit down in any sales, any situation ever. And this is part of the reason I decided that no matter what there's, there's things that work, right, that just work generally. And that's okay. But then there's things that I fucking hate. And part of the thing because if I'm going to design a sales system for somebody, I don't want it to include things that I think, suck. And if I go to buy a car, or anything, or get a loan for a house, if anyone in any sit down meeting with me pulls up next to them a funny fucking pass through just a god damn PowerPoint. I'll lose my goddamn mind. I mean, I really will. And that's some shit, man. They're just stuck in 2007 to 2015. That's the era that stuff of all kinds may be worse. And it still works. You know? The truth is there's a lot of people out there in the world that they're not that smart. They're not that cynical, and they just oh, okay, yeah, he had this thing but, but I don't know, man. I just don't want to be like that. I just don't want to be that guy who's running PowerPoint. So I like it to be on the up and up. This is just about what we're doing about you, me? How many times have you been looking for the perfect Cisco? Let's get this done. Let's make it about what we're all here for. We're all adults, you came for gym membership and lost some weight. Let's make it about that. Let's not make it about how funny I am or this fucking visual asset I have next to me. That's not good if you've ever watched them if you ever tried to bring someone in who hasn't done much sales and tried to walk them through that they're gonna go this is fucking stupid Dude, you're gonna make me just sit there with another person and click through this as though I'm entertained by this and they're supposed to be hell no. But the worst thing about the sales process is the offer. Usually what they bundle with your ads and it is done. It's done in a way. That is to seem super cheap or free. It's always a race to the bottom John, right. I've never seen I've never seen this before. Here's how you can sniff out snake oil salesmen coming in at your gym, figure out what ads and offers they want you to run. Like, How am I supposed to be given the numbers? What does that offer look like? Like, what is that? What am I doing? And if it involves free, or super cheap or all this other stuff, if it's a very low barrier to entry, just so you know, people are much better off being sold from high value down to lower value intro with high value and then budget their way through with low value, then coming in low value and then trying to upsell them after that. So know that you're going to be dealing with a high volume of clients, they say members, they don't say dollars, I want you to know that right there, the new members, not 30 new members at your current rate that you're getting per member, it's not in we're gonna get people in signed up. Because not all, not only that, it meets in the middle because it's not as free for them when they come in either as you think it as they think it's going to be. And you don't make as much money per person as you think you're going to either. This is a bait and switch for your clients for your potential new potential clients. And it is a bait and switch for you. You think of 30 members and you do your current math. And that's not how this works. You they see they see $1 or $10, or free, or whatever, $100 for three, or whatever the shit is and just you know anything that either so when you to both come in you and this new lead that you got, you're so excited that now you're getting all these new members, you're gonna have this conversation. And they're gonna go what somebody fucking talked about, some of that ad was said free will know us put Take this money and you put it in, we're gonna put it in escrow. Like, all this shit is unethical as fuck. It's corny. It's the first thing you're doing. We talked about these expectations. And first impressions are key. So the expectation is cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap. And the first thing they do when they come in, is get told, like, hey, we kind of tricked you. It's not that cheap, it's something a little different than that. It's not what it sounded like, you've lost trust immediately. And you're never going to keep them if that's the way the relationship starts. It's the equivalent of marrying the woman who cheated on someone else with you. Gonna be a lot of trust in the long run, if that's how you meet. You know what I'm saying? That you're just always gonna go. I don't know what to say.

John Fairbanks 28:09

It, it's it is it's done. It's done in that way. When you have to deliver that to somebody that comes in, now you know you have to deliver it. Now you you're gonna have somebody, and the reason why you know what to say, is because deep down, if, again, if we're speaking to something that hits you right in the core, because you've done this before, you know, the fucking mental gymnastics that you had to do when you learned what the offer was, as well. So the offer gets told to you, and you're like, you spy Wait, you go wait. And you start spiraling? Because it's like, well, fuck, they've helped me. They're doing my aim, man, well, I really liked the copy for the emails,

Tyler 29:00

and $15,000 for this fucking service.

John Fairbanks 29:05

I have all these things. And I have all this stuff. And now you get to this point in the relationship in the conversation, where you're like, Wait, what am I selling? Everything. That's what I'm selling now.

Tyler 29:17

And everything hinges on your ability to not execute this. If that's the core, if you don't execute that one, you've already been slow. You're 800 cuts in at this point.

John Fairbanks 29:31

Like, well, and this is what this is exactly what you say to yourself. So you can get the fuck up in the next morning and say, You know what? This is this is gonna work. It's okay. And what you tell yourself is Well, man, they're really like they got a lot they do this all the time. Like they're really successful. Like they've done this with so many other gyms like other people are doing like it's Manama I hear or I see all these other people that they're doing it to them and they're just fucking killing it. So it's, it must be like it feels it maybe it feels wrong right now. But everybody, everybody else is doing it. Tyler, everybody else is doing it and they're doing well. So he's the you know what, I can do it too. Like it'll be alright. And then you learn Thai with what did they teach you? But he's now once you're selling fucking horseshit. What do we now need to teach you? If you're going to fucking sell somebody absolute god damn snake oil?

Tyler 30:29

You're really gonna fucking liar. That's what you're

John Fairbanks 30:31

gonna learn a whole bunch of sales objects. Yes.

Tyler 30:34

And that's what it is, that thing that you're talking about John and we're going to elaborate on this entire subject next week as well. So stay tuned, or next to nothing has been the next week next week. Is that they now start teaching you how to overcome sales objections? And do you know what sales objections are? Okay, is the thing that happens very often I won't have I gotta save some of this stuff for the next episode because we're gonna, but just but the sale this the reason there's objections is because the reason that they came in, therefore, that they're talking to you for and the product now that you're presenting them, it's not aligned. They came in with a want and now they're now they're shit in the way. Trust me if they thought there was shit that shit in the way they're not in this conversation to begin with. Okay, so let's either gloss over or lie about getting them in the room or to get them on the phone or to get them in a meeting with you. And then after that, now they're gonna teach you how to do all this shit. And someone says, No, I really can't afford it. And then you gotta go. Well, I mean, it's really valuable, though. Here's what you don't understand: it is awesome. And you just know what I mean? Like, it has the value of it's all the wrong shit. Sell people stuff that they want. Don't convince them that they want shit. They don't want it's fucking nuts to me of you. This is what I don't get. I don't get this about the fitness industry. I don't get it. Any of this great sales training shit. You see, it's all about this. It's coercion. And it's fucking persuasion. And it's like, I thought you I thought your fitness to some people need it. I thought you're good enough. I thought people should want that. Well, I thought your offer seemed to make sense. If it's about the results. Let that be it. You want to lose weight? Let's get in the suits. Here's what it costs. What fucking objection is there to that? I can't afford it. Okay, let's Okay, we have some products a little cheaper, that can still get you going. And if there's no budget to make them, let them move on. And you quit wasting your time and you save face. And you help the people that want to be helped. Because you know what you're gonna do? You're gonna convince somebody that doesn't want to do it that didn't want to do that. You're gonna slick your way around this shit, man. It's not. It's not fucking, this isn't Glengarry Glen Ross here, we're not over here. Just close and close and close. And the sheets hokey and people are fucking over it. Okay, we're over it. The internet has leveled up to the point where everyone fucking thinks advertising and pushy sales sucks. I have a friend who went on a fucking holiday vacation. And it's one of those things where they give you what they give you, literally like 100 bucks cash and a bunch of excursions at the resort to sit in on a timeshare presentation.

John Fairbanks 33:09

I love that.

Tyler 33:11

And they still do that shit. And by the way, they make you want it. They do want you to sit there like that does seem kind of awesome. We'd use a private plane. I mean, we still have to pay for every single thing that you do. You just don't pay as much. And you're like, Well, this is like it all of it sucks. But this is what this these guys are using old sales tactics that are based upon a world that doesn't fucking exist anymore. People are cynical about the shit, I know what I want. I've read my Do you? I mean, do you need clarification before you buy something on Amazon? No. And you know why? Because they prioritize reviews. They prioritize lots of detailed photos. You know exactly what you're getting, and what 1000s of other people have thought about that product before you make that decision. Okay,

John Fairbanks 33:59

I even know what's bad. I already am anticipating like, if this goes bad, I know what it will be. Because I already have seen it from everybody else. It's already told me

Tyler 34:08

people are doing their own risk assessment. Remember this? Remember this part about this? Overcoming sales objections? If you go to a car dealership and you don't want to buy that car and the guys like me What don't you like about it? I mean, we could like there's no nothing about it that's gonna make you buy it. There's nothing no matter how slick they are. And if you just tell them it's because it's too expensive just because you want to go sweat and conversation Well maybe I could we could get this down we can save you $9 a month and so I just want to not buy this fucking car and I'm gonna tell you it's whatever reason I'm gonna tell you I got leprosy living the fuck out this room and get out of here. You know, I just don't get it. So those sales if they want you to sell like that, because that shit used to work. It is what it is. And the reason they want you to sell like that is because they're going to give you a bunch of low quality leads. They're gonna trick them into the room, and they're gonna leave you sitting there holding the bag. The sucker is, you know that it's not them. Because that person can tell, you know, and they can leave the room, but you know what they're gonna do when they leave the room, they're gonna tell people what that experience was, and you never get that experience back, you never get the opportunity to make a good first impression. Your first impression with all these people that they feed you is shit. And at best, the ones you close now, you're piling them into a system full of more people that don't really want to be there that aren't that kind of survived the what's the word the fall off, that happens like the low quality leads, they survive that attrition, the pre sale attrition, the lead to conversation to close attrition rate, and then they're in your gym attrition rates gonna be nuts. They're not committed, they're in on low value, they're in on low price, you never upsell them. So you're doing all this work, you're trading your reputation, you're trading all of this shit that you got it, you wanted to preserve that stuff. When you get into your company, I want to be an asset to my community. I want to really help people, I want to have an impact. I do want to be respected as a health professional. I want to be the person that is helping tons of people here get in shape, lose weight, fit family is everything. I want to make the whole fucking thing. Awesome for everybody. And now I'm coming in transit. Well, no, I know that said, I know it said that it was $40. But it's not really you gotta write a check for 500. But we keep it. And then if you do these 1000 tasks in here that you're not going to be able to keep up on and when you miss one of them, we keep the money either way, and then you go out the fucking door. Is that how you want to do business? No, no. And that's my question always. You can. The worst thing too is we've had gyms kind of poke through some of these other places and just ask around and then what they do too. And they tell you to ask them these questions like, you know, how many gyms do you work with? They'll give you a number that's big. How much money do they make? They're gonna give you a number. That's impressive. And then you start asking questions like, well, the average gym that starts working with you, how long do they stay? And you know what they're gonna tell you. They're gonna lie. Do you know why? Because that doesn't have to be truthful. They're just gonna lie to you. They're gonna say Oh, most of our it's gonna be purely anecdotal. Most of our gyms are with us for five years and 10 years. I mean, these are just to make money forever. It's not fucking true. Not even close. Most don't survive through the first run. Not that the business has failed, but they pull back and go Oh, Jesus, I gotta fucking put it back together. So what they do is they just put a big grenade in your business, in your brand, in your community, in your soul. And they just blow it all the shit and then you're left to pick up the pieces like what the

John Fairbanks 37:40

Russians right Russians going after the Olympics. So here's the system we're gonna fucking break everybody yeah but if you make it you're pretty fucking surviving

Tyler 37:52

you're gonna be great this is and that's what it is. It really is gonna turn and burn you. It's a survival of the fittest but it's not truly the fittest Jim it's just the one that's willing to sell out completely to this day or version their version Yeah, and just know that they want you to be their version. John, let's move forward to this other stuff here.

John Fairbanks 38:14

There's one more Tyler There's one more big cut that they do. And the big cut that they do is they start handling all your data for you yes and this is what we see a lot we see a lot of the consultants or gym or whatever right they're gonna come in they're gonna help you do amazing things is that they are now handling all of your back end system and they probably have everything is integrated to the point where your website building you're now your core website now is handled by them maybe even the sales ads that they're helping you run maybe even now they have the sales pages are now ran you don't know what the fuck you're doing when it comes to building website shit so all you know is now you don't have to pay the one dude that's been in your music wellness track have to do that right like you don't have to worry about his invoices that he sends because now it's all like done for you. You don't worry about it and then it's the entire back end system. Now everything is integrated. And if they're really really good, they'll even help you handle your payments. Yep. So now you're no longer doing it though you're not doing it through stripe, you're not doing it there is nothing that you have to handle because god damn having 15 Different software's to help you do that one thing it really is nice. Having one thing that really can do all of it for you. The question Holy shit,

Tyler 39:34

how hard is this and this is the thing this is that what they've created now is you as a dependent. You're dependent on this thing. So they'll make it easy to get you in because it's a whole process to roll over into a new system as a whole new back end trust me guys. I've said this before but like your next CRM system, your next what's the word Account Management System? Your next web system, your next lead nurturing system, whatever, whatever it is using whether it's fully integrated into one piece or not, whether it's multiple different systems, your next one will suck. Just as bad as the current one that you have, it's just going to suck in different ways that you don't know yet. And that's fine. I'm okay with solving a problem, doing what it takes to solve that problem than solving the next one. But just know, when you start bouncing from software to software, they all suck. They just all suck in different ways. And it's really important for you to know that the cost of implementation and transferring over is very high. It only reduces headaches, very rarely does it increase revenue. And that's okay, there's still, I think you should always move. I think you should experiment with things. But just know that the cost of transition is extremely high. And you can't just bounce from thing to thing to thing to thing to thing, it'll make you crazy. But what do they do when they get you all in one now. Now what they're using, they're holding you hostage, that's the truth, you are now a hostage. And the ransom is you're going to pay the money forever and ever and ever, in order to keep this fucking thing going, you're going to pay them and you're not going to pay anyone else. Okay. And if you don't like it, the punishment is you get to stop paying them that money, then you gotta eat a whole plate of shit and spend three months of your life swapping switching over to a new system. And also, there's kind of overlap too, because you can't just stop paying fucking guy number one. And just immediately everything exists on software. And number two, it may be three months, now you're paying duplicates, oh, you transition everything over to a system that's going to suck for different reasons. And this is why you can't give us talks about these coaches, you can't give your coaches or staff the keys to the city. Because there's just too much they get too much responsibility. They'll fucking skirt as much of it as they can to underperform. And that's what happens when you're giving, you're giving someone who has made no progress in your business at all yet. You're giving them all of your systems that now you can't change out of without a fuck ton of work. They fuckin own you know, it's nuts. It's not

John Fairbanks 42:06

the worst, huge piece. And you've alluded to this a couple of times today, which is saving face or losing face is that for you to make a couple of these transitions, there were probably people that were in your local community that were helping you do these things before. And now, and they probably worked with you a lot, that Prop kind of more than likely they were a pain in the ass. Because they probably bugged you with lots of questions about you know, like, what it should look like or feel like and because they were involved, and they wanted to do a good job, but you just viewed it as a pain. But it's as soon as you get to outsource it. Oh, man, thank God, I don't have to talk to fucking dick about this anymore. Because now it's just handled for me. And the worst thing is Tyler, like you said, what, whatever that natural attrition rate is before you, you now are gonna fucking burnout. But it's once you get on the verge of burnout or you're not going to renew or whatever. If you've made the number one mistake that we see gym owners do when they get plugged into a system like this, which is they mentally check the fuck out because it's all being done for them. And they now are just an errand boy in their own business. If you want to get the fuck out. What ends up happening is however long ago you checked out, you are now that much more fucked. Because you don't know all the things now it's run away from you. And it's so far away. That it's like whatever progress you have made, because of them coming in and helping you you are now about to experience a backslide like you just had your own goddamn COVID You're about to have your own little recession and your own little community and if you were an asshole to those local people that used to help you while you said hey, I don't need your help anymore I get to have these people are really good at it. And then you're like oh, I need help. And what you better be in a big fucking community that you live in or a big city or you're just

Tyler 44:09

going to another stranger now and then you're screwed because yeah you're just jumping from no trust no proof to no trust no proof and thing to thing now you're stuck yet so let's quit for one at a time. Let's go with a couple of things yet how to identify these problems these snake oil salesmen and what to do instead. Okay, the first one is very quick to identify these two very, very, very easy ways. This is the most important one. The first one is too good to be true. Does it sound too good to be true? We've seen it right we've seen the promises and you can pay more money you can get 50 members a month you get more money you get 90 members a month and then they'll say things like guaranteed okay the guaranteed what but again like at what the ultimate Faustian bargain to get a bunch of one cent numbers. We're gonna really ruin the experience for the people that are paying a lot of money. That's great. You're fucking walking over $1 to pick up a nickel wonderful stuff. So that sucks. The second part of this here are the promises that are a bit too narrow, like the scope of their actual skill set is entirely too narrow, you know, some of the stuff is the most popular whatever the bigger players in this gym consultant business do. It's actually mostly sales, their stuff started in just sales, its sales systems, and it really is still antiquated. It's just we're gonna run ads, and we're gonna give you some swipe files, and we're gonna give you scripts, and you're just gonna run with it. And you're gonna take the good with the bad, and it is what it is going to be, but it is not reconciled with your product, your wants your true offer, who your gym is, who you are, who you want your clients, they don't fucking know who your people are, they don't know any of this stuff. Okay. And that's why you need something that is able to be customers for you. Okay, so someone comes in, like, they can sell you a lot of other stuff. But when it is at its core, they're really only good at one thing, and they're just bundling everything else. And that takes us to the third third thing here. Third thing to spot are the promises actually too broad and a wide range of promises. And as we talked about before, they're gonna do software leads, email, ad sales systems, blah, blah, blah, they can do everything. I'm sorry, nobody's good at all those things, there's not one business out there. That is an expert at all those things and that has them all properly balanced at all. And if they are, you are not a part of that equation. Not one bit of what you want. None of this is a part of this equation. You're just going to put this thing in there and it's gonna steamroll over you and your community. That's what that's what it's going to do. That's fine, if that's what you want. Right? Right. If you're trying to balance this with, like, what you got into this business for and what you want your linear, what do you want your day to day job to be? Like, what do you want it to feel like in your gym, who do you want to be working with, that's not part of the equation. It's not, if anyone's doing all those things, they're probably just good at one of those things. And they're good enough, or just selling the rights to your fucking business to somebody else to go fulfill the software stuff and the other shit, so. So keep that in mind. Okay, if it's too good to be true, it just is whether they're too narrow or too broad, it doesn't matter. Stay the fuck away, if someone can't talk to you practically. And they don't say anything. By the way, this is one more. If in any of their stuff, it's not about actually helping people. Like that's the fundamental nature of your business, it's not about helping people get results. It's not about making sure that somewhere in here, there's quality control, or just some sort of being tuned in to the impact that you're trying to have in your community. They don't fucking get it. And they're going to ask you to sell your soul, they will, I promise you, that's what this is. That's the first thing you're gonna sign. You don't know it yet. But the first thing you're paying for, that's what it is, you're that's exactly what it is. So, our next one is what to do, instead, it's a very easy way for me to translate this to you, when I've worked with clients who need to lose weight as a coach, as a fitness coach. I tell them this all the time. Okay, say it's you, you have to change, you don't get to be the same person. Don't get to be if you're if you're a 350 pound person, and you want to, you know, gain confidence and work, start working hard on stuff that changes you that process changes, you know, it has to change you. It doesn't just change your body, it changes who you are. It's important. That's why like mental health outcomes, positive mental health outcomes are so correlated to fitness getting in shape. It actually makes you a happier person, it makes you change better, makes you change into somebody who likes themselves because of the decisions they've been making. Okay, it's not the exercise, it's the progress, just so you know, okay. But that's very, very important. Because when I work with gym owners, you know, we tell them, you need to level up your skill set, you cannot ignore your marketing, or just hand it off to a coach and let it be like, yes, you don't have to become a marketing wizard. You don't have to become the person who knows how to do this. And you don't have to become a tech person or anything like that. You don't have to be great at design. But you do need to start if you don't have at least a rudimentary understanding of how your, your brand and your mission connects with your people, and what are your people and who are they and what does good marketing kind of look like and what is bad marketing. If you're not willing to even get close to it, then you're just gonna write a big fat check off to somebody who isn't going to reconcile that with you and your brand and your people. And they're just going to run away the four units gonna get further and further away from you know that that will be expensive, and it will not be you

John Fairbanks 49:36

the most important asset in your business, the most important thing in your business is you. absolutely hands down has to be anything else. You are the most important thing. And then everything else literally everything else has to come second.

Tyler 49:52

Yeah, you have to level up. That's it. And that's what we're here to do with it when we were gym owners near Kerim Academy. That's the first thing we have to benchmark some things we want to work with. We help them decide. We help we kind of triage and prioritize the things we want to move forward on. Perfect. Like three projects in the gym, things we need to get done, things that need to change, great. But now the onus is on you, as the gym owners, Okay, now let's help you figure this out and do this. Because if you figure out how to do it, now you can do it over and over and over again, with anything related and you become capable. There's the thing that makes me the most frustrated with people when we get into troubleshooting and problem solving in real life and business. And fitness is people who are not resourceful mentally when it comes to doing these things. And that's where I'm at, you need to be resourceful. You're going to figure this out. And once you know that, you can figure out all of anything, with enough help with the right people behind you. Now you become invincible in business, and you really do. And that's the thing that we cannot, cannot gloss over. Because there are no shortcuts you need to change. Again, you don't have to do all the doing forever, but you have to level up because for the same reason that I require my fitness clients like you don't, this thing you need to change, it's you, it's you, it's you. It's not your life, it's not your fucking work, such as scheduled lunch, your kids, it's not your wife, it's not your stress, it's you It's not food to you, you need to change you need to make these decisions, you, you, you, you you, but when you change you, and when you change you as a business owner as well, now you own that progress. You own it and you can you're you have full comprehension of this thing. You can run left, you can run right, you can run right into Oh shit, that was wrong. But now you can go, you know, things don't get away from you. And that is because the only way in fitness that these results are a person getting results less. Because if someone comes in and I tell me an apple and a salad every day and nothing else, yeah, they're gonna lose 50 pounds this month. But they ain't gonna own it forever. Because they didn't have to change, they just had to bear down and not develop a system that didn't, that they weren't involved in, they just had to do the one thing I told them and just bite down on that for a month. I mean it and that ain't it for your business.

John Fairbanks 52:06

Because the tools don't change. Right. And the reality is that you can do everything that we described, that they will take your soul one piece at a time. All those things are just literally just the tools that are in the tool belt of every gym owner and gym business owner, right? But it's the same premise where it's a hammer is a hammer, a hammer in the hands of someone that is, you know, whatever, 12 and then the hammer is in the hands of someone that's put 30 years in like carpentry is totally different. It's a totally different skill set wielding that same tool. And that is it just 100% comes down to how well you can use those tools?

Tyler 52:51

Yeah, if I'm selling weight loss to clients and in my marketing, come on in and I'll do it for you. How unethical is that for me? A lot. And yet you fucking gym owners are biting the fucking hook every time one of these fucking scumbags comes in and says, we'll do it for you. Leads software, you're gonna get taller, you'll get skinnier, more handsome, you don't have to work anymore, you just make more money, we do everything for you. You don't get anything, okay, you don't you now don't own any of this stuff. They're now doing it and you're just getting a cut of something that's not yours anymore. And it sucks. It's that and what we're about in the gear Academy. Okay, so we're gonna move on, that's what we got for today. But we want you to learn from this lesson. Go out there and find the best ways with your marketing, with your service, with every aspect of your business, to blend your product with your clients, and deliver them the results they want to get. And you do that via a high value service. That's it, it's not that fucking hard. So everything you're doing just needs to glue those pieces together. That's it, okay. And all the other things we do in between there. That's what we got the gear Academy for, if you want and if you want to become successful at your business, you actually want to keep your soul and you don't want to become slimy. You don't want somebody else to take your stuff. I'm not I'm not we don't come in here trying to tell you, you gotta do what you need to do on the floor. We don't tell you what you need to run for ads. We can set you up with people to do all sorts of things from ads to marketing. We have resources that give you very affordable ads that are going to work with the offer system that we have built based on you and your clients and your services and the things you do best. That's what we're all about the gear Academy if you want it on that go to gym owners Everything else you can find in the description here but go to the gym, follow the gym owners podcast on Instagram, follow John at j banks FL and Instagram and follow me at Tyler effing stone I think we ranted pretty hard. Thanks guys. We'll see you there.

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