The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/Fitness Business Consultants Are Sh##t

Fitness Business Consultants Are Sh##t

Thursday, June 29, 2023



coaches, gym, people, business, clients, owners, consultants, system, sucks, run, fitness, implement, sell, training, results, follow, pay, completely


  • ‚ÄčPivoting your business. (0:01)
  • ‚ÄčConsultants and gym owners. (5:01)
  • ‚ÄčIt really comes down to the people you pay. (11:34)
  • ‚ÄčThe reason why it‚Äôs so unethical to follow a formula. (16:51)
  • ‚ÄčHow to listen to your gut? (21:47)
  • ‚ÄčWhy are we doing this? (26:09)
  • ‚ÄčThe value of a good coach. (30:13)
  • ‚ÄčThe symbiotic relationship between your business and your staff. (34:36)
  • ‚ÄčWhat do you buy when you buy a franchise? (40:00)


TylerTyler 00:01

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this week's absolute gym owners podcast. This week we're going to talk about why fitness business consultants fucking suck, and why you cannot follow them religiously. Okay, getting too dogmatic about some shit to some experts says and just following their shit to the tee is only going to do fucking to wherever they go, which is constantly pivoting, constantly changing. And while I get that the game is constantly changing, you need to have a little bit of ownership over your own process. Once you hand that stuff over. My god, you're just letting people up in your entire community, your entire business model, just for what, because they wanted to try something and now they have your system at their disposal to do it. And they can experiment in your gym, your people, your clients, your new leads, your reputation, all this shit is just now stapled to some big fucking consulting organization out there that's telling you what to do and telling your clients what they can do. So this is going to be a sassier episode, but we're gonna go over some specifics and why we'd like you guys to follow some guiding principles so that you can actually be the ones who are evolving your system and giving people choices and leaning towards optimal not just saying, doing what this guy says you need to do right fucking now because this is working right now. And then in three months, you're like, Oh, well now that that trash your reputation, we realized that let's pivot and do something different. So fuck all them fitness consultants. Okay, including us. So, before we get into it, make sure you join the Facebook group here. This gym owners revolution links in our description. Follow the show on Instagram at the gym owners podcast, follow me on Instagram at Tyler effing stone, you can find John over

John Fairbanks 01:39

there at Jay banks FL on Instagram, that's silky,

Tyler 01:43

smooth voices, the glorious John Fairbanks, everybody. That's me. So we were talking with some gym owners this week. I talk to gym owners a lot. Obviously, it's the nature of what we do. And we keep hearing these, there's like these constant revisions that are going on with the recommended business model that when you start getting mixed up with some of these larger consulting firms start doing it. And what they do is they just paint your business really into a box. And it really starts to suck, it's really inflexible, as well, depending on your business model, your box into what your marketing should be, your box into the way that your ads should be, you're very much boxed into how your product should be and what your offers should be. And there's very little flexibility. What this does is this changes your client experience into something that is not yours. It's not that it's not born of your gym, your culture, your coaches style, you're the many potential futures that your gym can have, the many iterations that it can grow and evolve into, that's all taken away. And when someone comes in and says, Okay, everybody, the only offer we're running is we're selling a bait and switch fucking challenge. And we're going to do that for a year. And I'm, by the way, guys, I love the idea of trying a thing, and it being maybe successful, and then seeing that it doesn't work. And then moving on, that's gonna be the nature of a lot of things that you do. The problem is guys, if you're paying somebody else to tell you what to do. So that you can shortcut some of that shortcut through some of that trial and error, and not have some of those major mistakes, start to burden your brand. And that's what really, especially with the guys, you know what I'm talking about, so that there's, if you've been around some of those thoughts, there's a lot of bait and switch bullshit out there. And that stuff will absolutely torture your brand. It'll torture, torture, the reputation. Aside from the people you already have in your gym, we've heard from many members of gyms who went yeah, and then my my gym owner or whatever, my coach, whatever started going with some new cons consulting thing, and then the business got all fucking weird. Like it started getting slimy. It started being really misleading. The marketing was, like, disingenuous and not us and not about what we do. The people that we were getting in, we're confused about what was going on, we're getting people upset about the service, then the service fulfillment dives, the quality of the service on the floor starts to tank. Guys, you are in a local community, no matter how big your market is, people are not driving for the most part. 45 minutes to go work out at your gym. They're not. So you got people that live within ideally 15 minute radius or drive by your location. No matter where you live, that's not that many people. Okay, you cannot be getting people interested around your area show up and then fuck up your reputation by just doing what some dipshit from far away who's working with 400 gyms is telling you what to do, just so he can test some things to pump some numbers because the numbers and everything because your numbers will rock if you do some of this stuff and you throw a bunch of money at ads and you just really turn and burn that thing. That number will be awesome until people get hip to it. And then you're just another slimy motherfucker down the road that nobody wants to do business with. That was five minutes.

John Fairbanks 05:01

That was good. Nicely done. No, it's, um, there's another piece to this. So while consultants suck, a lot of the fault falls to you, gym owners. Yes. And Tyler and I have been in areas where we weren't working for consultants, we weren't working with consultants, right we were working with just in the fitness education space. And it's just a human's fundamental desire to be dogmatic, and to follow a leader. And to then hold a religious fervor to whatever that leader says, is the problem. Because you and I, I mean, how many for we dealt with a serious issue where it was when we worked in the fitness education space, every gym, gym owner, every coach that really went and deep and wanted to learn and they were really invested in wanting to improve themselves, they were willing to completely leave their own identity and strip it completely clean, and just become what they thought their leader wanted them to become. Like, we watched full gyms, completely

Tyler 06:15

different coaching philosophies just adopted completely and abandoned with all the people in there want to do it like to do. I mean,

John Fairbanks 06:21

it was as extreme as that. I mean, think about this as a gym owner, one of the most extreme examples that I remember is that you have a CrossFit gym. That is for anyone that lived under a fucking rock and doesn't know right is a very barbell heavy facility. Almost overnight, just get rid of every barbell in the entire gym, and replace it

Tyler 06:44

with something more functional structure alone. But you cannot have root a, in lieu of being completely people who want people there for a. So if you need to do this new series, this new coaching philosophy stuff, it needs to be introduced, it needs to be blended in, it needs to become a part of your system. If it's there to be corrective, great, you can do more of one and less of another. But when you just blink the light from green to red, it's a fucking problem. You cannot just flip it like that because everyone in your gym goes, well, this is not what I'm here for. This is not what I got in here. And I'm okay with leaning towards new and leaning towards better but lean leaning, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was that the most valuable thing you can do in your career in business and all things is carefully preserve, forward lean. That's it just gradually leaning into progress. That's it. If you try to jump too much, you've changed everything, you'd lose the foundation with which got you there, and I'm okay with moving fast. But like a lot of things, someday you're gonna move quick, some days, you're gonna move slow. But just keep moving. If you learn something better, if you want to try a new thing. Try it. John, we talk all the time about how to implement if you want to implement a new program, a new service offering a new specialty program or challenge or whatever it is within your gym. Right? Do you now make that your gym's identity, I know what you do if you go, Hey, you guys have said that it should also be in response to a demand first ideally. But then you go. Here's the thing that we're going to do, if you guys want to try this, you sell it internally, you run pilot programs, you prove that it works. And none of that is very laborious, and you don't have to build it from scratch, you just build it when people will start paying. But to just pivot your business to some model where you pay your coaches 20 bucks a session. And then you wonder why you don't keep your coaches. You let your coaches keep, I mean, let your coaches keep almost no money, you do all the selling for them. So they're completely at completely at your whims financially, and then wonder why you're only gonna get part time as you're not going to get career people or why the moment they can be empowered personally, they have their own thing, they're gone. And so your coach turnover is very, very high, your client turnover is very, very high. And those gyms, you don't want to know what their fucking churn numbers are like, and you don't want to know how hard it is to sell. It becomes this high pressure sales shit. It's a fitness business guy, you gotta understand this requires more actual buying. It just does more emotional buy and more time more effort than just the moment of purchase. So when you run these programs, it's like we're going to we're going to run ads for a stuff people into some high pressure sales situation and then we're going to force them into a product regardless of what they want, whether it's whatever the new trend is, you got to come in, and you have to do this challenge first and it's free, but we need money from you somehow that fucking makes sense, right? Or it comes in and goes no, no, you have to do a semi private thing. It's more expensive, but you have to do it to begin with. What if this person's done other stuff? What if they came with you at your CrossFit gym? Somebody's been doing CrossFit for five fucking years. Jesus Christ, you're gonna box him in for weeks at some big ticket price. Let them choose And that's the issue I have with all of this is for your clients, they need choice, they need to choose their own path, they need to choose their own level of commitment, they need to choose what their experience is going to be, or else they will go somewhere else. And on the other side, you as a business owner, don't let these consultants don't let this, whatever somebody else's dogma is. And by dogma, I mean, fucking thing they're throwing at the wall this quarter, okay. And then if it works, they'll adopt it, pitch those numbers to the next group until it stops working. And then they go to something else in your brand, your business is left holding the bag, your clients are left confused as to why things are always changing and get weird, why they don't just know what it costs and what to expect when they do business with you. It's bullshit. Well, to not let them tell you what your business is, and should be, you need to choose your path, your clients need to choose their path, those are underlying principles. That's what we do when we work with Jim Morris. I'll tell you what to do. I'm gonna tell you like, here's what I think. And you can do a you can do B, you can launch this you can do that you can pursue whatever intro program you want to do. But I like it all to be under the filter of just do people have a choice? Do they get to fall into their buying habits, do they get to level up or level down their level of investment, where between their buying habits, their available cash, their willingness to really push to succeed, how much time and effort they're willing to invest that shit matters. And if you let somebody else come in, and just strip all that away, you are selling your gym off to them, that's what's happening.

John Fairbanks 11:34

It really comes down to them. Yeah, you're paying them to then change who you are, and then eventually be ready to take it from you. And it is why it's exactly what you call that which is the ad where it is constantly a test. And things are just being tested. We watch this, we've watched this on the coaching front, where it's for coaches wanting to get better. And the main person instructing the coaches is like, Alright, I need everybody to do this this week, and come back and report back. And it's, and then when it's all over done. It's like that sounds insane. Why would we do that? And he says, I just want to see if they'll do it. And it's understood that that mentality is also happening on the other side, where if I want to, you gotta understand this from an unethical perspective. Yeah, so if we put on our unethical hat, is if I'm getting ready to sell, or if I'm getting ready to workshop, or promote or run ads towards, let's say, running semi privates, let's say semi private personal training, and small group personal training is the number one thing that you need to do. And then all gyms need to do it right now, in order to be able to triple their money by the weekend hard stop period.

Tyler 12:48

Makes sense, John, right. It's a high value product, it's probably the most per hour per floor hour, you're going to be able to get sort of a very full group class, right?

John Fairbanks 12:58

So at its core, that principle is right. And we subscribe to the importance of semi private personal training, but how we go about doing it is going to be different now, because I'm saying that this is going to be my hook. And I know what I'm going to workshop on. And I know I'm gonna be able to hook people in because they're dying for revenue, and they're dying for members. So if I hook this correctly, my very next step to do with the people that are already in my community, is I am going to put them in a corner and I'm going to say, this is what everyone is doing right now hard stop, period. I want everyone to do this. I want to know what your numbers are. I need the data. Go do it. No questions asked. Because then we're really taking what was the Russian Olympic model where they did that documentary where it was like if you die, you die, essentially? Yeah, there's that. Wow.

Tyler 13:48

Yeah, a little bit of that. There's also the Bulgarian that like the Bulgarian Olympic training thing was a meat grinder. Yeah. So it just was

John Fairbanks 13:55

you kill everybody else, everybody, all the drugs,

Tyler 13:59

everybody does all the training, 95% of them break. And the one with the most, most elite genetics, highest drug tolerance, the best responders to drugs, training and resistance to damage, that's how you find them is by breaking everything else. But hey, you got some records, they get the records . What that model fails to represent to you is all the people that got chewed up in there, they got chewed up in that process. So know that when you're hearing these success stories, those who are the ones who very likely some maybe kept their shit all the way through, bless their heart, but a lot of them just really did it at the expense of their reputation and being like a real place that there's a real connection and I do believe that the future of fitness is results. And I do believe that results require actual connection and people who care and a real path that is guided by success for clients, which includes choice and commitment and all that stuff. So if you take that out of your gym, to chase that, you're going to see a lot of financial For success stories, at what expense it costs them on a really know, but everyone else who chase that and failed, they did not get the fucking money. They did not get really much of anything out of it, they're left holding the bag and their reputation sucks. They've torched a lot of relationships. There's a lot of just bad juju that goes into being the bad slimy fitness guys. And in my opinion, that's the thing you need to avoid like the plague that doesn't mean be afraid of selling it doesn't mean be afraid of having offer it means if your offerings are all right, and they align with what people want they need and you can connect them to people and give them a choice that that rules so however you pursue that do that do that your way, but this other shit. Fuck all that. I don't give a shit. How. How jacked some five foot six dude with a weak ass Beard who talks about shit, that ain't fitness anymore? Constantly on fucking Instagram. I don't give a shit what he says about raising kids or reading books, or god knows what else. But fucking don't chase that shit. It just sucks. Get it in your business. I promise your clients will hate it. And they'll know right away. We've worked with gyms to do a lot of stuff that we have run through. We've helped them implement that stuff. And the thing always was, am I really not like this? It's like, yeah, dude. And you know what? They're your people, too. They're not theirs. They're not there. So I don't care how many fucking Yeah, I don't care how often you eat ice cream? How often do you calves? Or how many fucking brains you have? Fuck it. It's your business. It absolutely is your business. Do not let them change the model for you. Okay, you need to decide, truthfully, your clients need to decide. You need to decide what is going to make them successful, what they want, their money and their willingness to chase results. Get them there. But that guides your product selection, let that guide your business decisions.

John Fairbanks 16:51

And let it guide you. And I think this is the biggest warning. And this is the thing where we say like, listen, the reason why it's so unethical is because humans just want to follow and do think about their diets. It's just as whatever the everyone is just fuck is just all over Ketos not just as keto. It's keto. It's keto. It's keto. And then it's carnivore, and then it's whatever the fuck, and we are so dogmatic about what team and tribe are on, and it's us versus them. And this is the thing that's gonna be the biggest difference maker and whatever the hell. And the reality is, everybody that's been in the game long enough, just knows it's, it's whatever you can do, consistently over a period of time is going to be what's best. But that's not how you make money. It's a smash and grab, it's a quick flash in the pan, we got to be able to make money, we got to grab it now. And so that is where you're gonna get caught up into a natural, and that's what makes it unethical. It's just like you said to others, like it's, these aren't your people are not their people. So what they're doing is they're going to prey upon your desire to do better. And they're going to shoehorn you into feeling that you must do a thing and only that one thing, and it will cost you. And that is definitely the piece where it is that testing ground, because what is so important right now will not be the thing in three quarters, it will not be a thing next year, it will adjust and it will switch. And it just ends up being in this I think is the biggest. One of the biggest problems at the end of the day is that it causes the vehicles that these dudes are using, and that these groups are using and saying like challenges, or personal training or semi private, or this is how you. This is how you handle personal trainers. And this is how you build people. And this is how whatever it is, I'm

Tyler 18:40

tell you the percentage that you pay your coaches. Yeah, with the fact that you know who my coaches are, do you know what they're capable of? Do you? It's insane to me, to just go by a formula is nuts.

John Fairbanks 18:54

And to do those things, it's what it ends up doing? Is it demonizing the thing itself? So now when we talk to people, it's like, what do you guys think about Chow? will fuck challenges? Like it was like, Well, no, like, at its core, like a competition or a challenge is not it's not a bad thing? Yes, it's actually quite, it's quite positive.

Tyler 19:16

You want to ruin a good idea. You want to ruin a good program, do it their way. Do it that way, because it's all going to come off slimy. And now the next time you want to run, like a really good challenge, it can be fun and real. It's all been painted in shit. You know, it sucks. It's and having launched some of those things. Having implemented some of those things, having helped gym owners do those things because again, we just help gym owners do what they want to do. And we just point them in the right directions and layouts and principles. So we've literally done implemented those things with gym owners and we've seen the the massive one ad where they're like, oh, fuck, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I'd say like, probably like 60% of the actual things that they want to implement. There's massive pushback on and I kind of agree with most of it in the process, and by the way, had had great financial success.

John Fairbanks 20:08

Because that's not the question. It's not the question, you will make money,

Tyler 20:12

you can have them both. This is a problem. It's like, Do you have to be a dickhead to be rich? Absolutely not. You can be just one path, you can get there and be an asshole in the process, but you don't fucking need to. And if you don't want to, you're going to like the end result, if that's how you got it.

John Fairbanks 20:29

And the way they get you, and we've talked about this before, but it's, you feel this, like as a gym owner, you know, and I know, you know, because I talk to enough gym owners, to where I have to cut through quite a bit of bullshit, just to be able to convince someone that I'm legitimately trying to just have a conversation with them. And that I don't have some like Mississippi shuffle, fucking bait and switch bullshit where they're gonna get caught into a sales call. So it because everyone's got

Tyler 20:59

a polo shirt, please. You know,

John Fairbanks 21:03

I cannot tell you how many people are saying it's like, this isn't like that one guy's thing? Is it? You guys aren't affiliated with these folks, are you? And it's just like, Oh, Jesus.

Tyler 21:13

Yes. Every time we try to make a real conversation about AI. Here's what we do. We got some questions for whatever, right? Obviously, all roads are about making connections. But the idea of trying to make connections with gym owners and get some decent information about what type of stuff they want, immediately makes people like I'm not the last time I did this. This guy's got two verses one. And it was like a whole frickin high pressure sales thing and they tried boxing me into this shit. Just know that if they're like that with you, that's exactly what they're going to expect with your clients. It's going to have to pass through, all the way through.

John Fairbanks 21:47

And so that is definitely it's going to be the piece where all those things continue to get ruined. And it is your job to be able to listen to your gut. Your gut is going to tell you when something sounds and feels like shit.

Tyler 22:03

Do you remember I send you these things all the time. There's like two there's a couple that I send you quite a bit where it's like just the most douche baggy as sales tip stuff. I think one of them's like a digital product. The other one's a car salesman stuff, do you say one of them's like, very like a military haircut, tucked in shirt kind of jacked all angry guy. It's like he just, it's just like too much Dianabol and caffeine and like just furious. And I'm telling you guys, fuck all that. It ain't like that. It doesn't need to be like the end. If you watch that stuff, just know that those are the formulas, these classic tried and true formulas. Those are the formulas that are just being stamped out when these people are trying to run a cookie cutter, plug and play, here's your full system, everything you need to do formulas that you need to run. It's some shit that worked five years ago, that worked 10 years ago, that they're not tuning up. Because there's not, there's not the resources John, we built, we built bunches of products and things like this. And you know, the inclination is very, the temptation is very strong, to make a thing. Alright, let's make a video about it. Let's write the formula. Okay, now we can send it out. And then to be like, this is done. This is my way to do this thing. Right? And that's my How To Guide and that does not get updated forever. And that is the dumbest goddamn thing to be following is any marketing, any strategic philosophy, anything like that with any level of specificity, right? generalities I'm interested in because again, there's underlying principles. But if you're talking actual execution stuff, and that thing is three, four or five years old, you got your fucking mind.

John Fairbanks 23:43

Now, I think it's important that you have a coach. Yes. Like, I think it's important that at some level, you are going to come to a point where it's either I want to do this faster. I don't know exactly what I want to do next, because I'm, I'm just I'm strapped for time, and I don't have the time to do it. Or I just, I would love to have somebody that has done this before. Right? We're all and there's going to be different elements of your business that you're gonna get to this very rarely is it just going to be like, generally, everything in the business. I'm now at that point. And there's going to be a moment and that's the time where you kind of poke your head up, or at least you should be and you're now looking for someone to help you.

Tyler 24:27

Yeah, I think that as far as especially in the business goes, I think there's obviously you need a plan. I think you're better off either finding someone that will assist in some of the doing in some of that stuff layout guiding I think mentorship in business is much more important than someone telling you what to do. Someone Someone help you figure out what you want to do. Brainstorm, let's come up with an actual plan together that fits your rules. Your criteria, the principles you want the vibe you want your business to have, have somebody help you identify what that is. And then let them based on their experience, help identify the next path for the next thing. And then the next thing and the next thing. And the next thing. The worst thing that you can do is just have somebody who is this is what the biggest issue I think with lies and there is no mentorship. There is no improving yourself or your skill set. It doesn't exist in any of these programs. It's, here's what you do. You're just like you pay your coaches. Here's how you do this. No, they can't do this. You've got to do this. All your clients have to do this or else this, delete this. Go with that. run our ads do this. Yeah, they suck. Yeah, it's weird. It doesn't matter. Here's how you're going to sell. Here's a bunch of fucking slideshows from seven years ago. And then when you have a hard time selling, it's not because nobody wants to sit down a lot of fucking slideshow. It's just because you did it wrong. Like that is, is that what you want? Did you know that you just want a boss? Why did you get your own fucking business? To let somebody else tell you exactly what to do?

John Fairbanks 26:09

Because what are you? What are you? What are you going to do? What are you gonna say? Right? Why? Boss? Why? Because you're gonna have if you have staff, it'd be like, why are we doing this?

Tyler 26:18

Somebody else is telling me to?

John Fairbanks 26:20

Well, is that your answer? Like you don't? I mean, like, that's the answer. You will because you don't get to get you don't get to get away with vain. It doesn't? Well, when you're middle management, you get to have that, you get to say, well, you know, they said the business wants us to do this. They said, I gotta do it. So like, hey, we all got to get in line. Like, you don't get to do that. You have to then come and say, No, this is what I believe is best for us. This is what we're doing. This is the plan, like you are so fucking confident. Because if you're not, it's just going to be a recipe for disaster with your staff, and with your clients, because they're going to feel it. And they'd be like, I don't know, I think this has to do with like, whoever these fucking new people are. They're just like, tell him to do stuff and you're just doing it. Like

Tyler 27:07

y'all ever been in a business where your boss gets a new consultant around, starts shaking things up. You know what? The other thing here is this. All these fucking things are the goddamn same too. That's what sucks is, it's no longer your business I can. I'm not gonna list names. If you listen hard enough, you may know what I'm talking about a few that I dropped earlier. But like, they're all fucking same, they'll do the same thing. Fundamentally, they're, they're the guiding principles underneath this is profit over performance over results for your clients. Profit First app. That's it, we're gonna sell absolutely zero effort to the quality of what's going on, on the floor, zero effort gone into your coaches, careers, their career path, as a matter of fact, 100% of them are detrimental. I've never seen a coach that comes in and goes, Oh, this is wonderful for me, the coaches that end up within those systems that are the only ones John, we've done some where the coaches did really well. But that's because we literally broke the model to make sure that it worked. We have John, we are women, by the way, we are the ones that we've addressed very publicly here. The coaches are a bit of a pain in the ass, and you can't give them the key to the city. And I get that. But the levels that a lot of these once you go to go through as these coaches, it's not a I don't like it being a commoditized low value, position. It's too important. Those are the relationships that people have. You cannot have coaches pullin. I mean, some of these players are gonna recommend nearly the minimum wage now is it here, it's still super low, but I think it's like 15 In some states right around there. There's some that are 1518 bucks an hour, it's like Dude, that's it's just not enough. When you can't work many hours at that, you have to understand that the floor hours are not like this. And, private personal training should be very valuable. There is no incentive for a coach to stay with you. If they're taking home 20 bucks or even 30 bucks an hour, because it can't coach 810 hours a day. So it just doesn't work. It just isn't going to make them a living. They can't get that many billable floor hours a day. So if anyone does that, they absolutely should uproot and do their own thing. So you've created a system where the system incentivizes poor results for the clients. Huge churn for the members, a big turnover and employees are an incentive for employees to leave. And especially for your best ones to always leave you got to know that this is where all of this goes. But these firms will get their money from you. You'll get some short term money and then you're going to be left with not much left. Which is to guess what the next play is? They acquire you. So when it finally sucks, nothing's not yours and it's not the thing that you wanted it to be perfect , your business model is the one we want it to be. So let's write To check for pennies on the dollar now it's ours. Don't play that fucking game. Don't play, it's a Faustian bargain. And you need to know better. If you got into it for the right reasons, you absolutely need to know better than that.

John Fairbanks 30:12

And it also discounts where it's, and again, yes, we have. We are not shy, we're sharing our opinions about most coaches. But there's quite a few coaches that also listen to the podcast, too. Right. So it is a thing where it's, but understanding that there are while there are coaches that fall into the majority, there are also a healthy amount of coaches that are very qualified, and do care quite a bit, and actually hold the potential to do a lot more bring a lot more value to a gym, and to commoditize commoditize, monetize them, right, whatever that word is right? To make them such a commodity to where you just say, Well, no, really a coach, as a coach, as a coach, personal training hours equivalent of on the floor, our like, all of these things are the same. To put them in that box is going to cause you to have a very lonely and difficult road, to be able to hoe once you can't fucking pay those people anymore. Because there's going to be a time where you're no longer going to shell out 20 to 40 grand a year to then work with them. And what's going to be left is you. And if you're not super fucking passionate about all those things that you've built in your gym while you worked with them, it's you're going to be like what like is your it's a kingdom of dirt that you've now inherited. And what we've watched in real time, is we've watched gym owners then fire the staff that they hired under the recommendations of these consultants, they then have to completely redo the model. And now all of a sudden, whatever time that they got back, whatever, whatever heights that they hit, while they were in like the height of pain to be able to get those results, then they went right back to either where they were before or they were worse off. And now they're like be They're lower than where they were like it's just you're heading back to step one, you're back negative.

Tyler 32:14

And then once it falls back, and this is another one as if when those mistakes happen, which we've seen with gyms working like this, doing these implementing these systems is the owner ends up losing staff because of the way the system is because the clients aren't happy that the staff feels that first clients don't like it, they don't go straight to the owner of some, well, you'll hear it. But when clients start getting rubbed the wrong way, leaving coaching becomes really unpleasant. Because you're literally with a person for hour, that's tough, multiple times a week, staff doesn't like the gig, they don't like the pay as they go, then what happens, owners got to do some filming into coach to cover that stuff, then the many 1000s of dollars, many, many, many 1000s of dollars, you're paying over the course of a year to implement all of these new things. Now, it's all wasted for many months, four months, a month, two months or whatever, while you're trying to cover just cover, you're just covering hours, you're covering floor hours, you're not able to implement new things you're not able to sell. So now you've spent a bunch of money consulting and now you're just back on the fucking floor. That's what it got you. And I don't know that I've seen any gym owner run through this for like a year that doesn't end up taking a hit and getting back on the floor for a decent chunk of that time. Because of staff loss man because of the big influx of new clients that they can't fulfill on new low value. Angry clients that are not going to stick around.

John Fairbanks 33:33

There's one population that does and they do have success and they are the success stories. And they are the folks that absolutely say I'm a blank slate. Whatever you need me to do, I will do and they would have been great. They just met the wrong person. Right? The dude that had everybody drink Kool Aid and cut their dicks off. And the other guy that was gay this fucking everybody out to Austin at whatever Joe Rogan. Right? Like it's those people. You just ended up meeting a gym consultant and not a fucking guru. Yeah, because the reality is that you would have been in the Mason camp, or fucking Charlie Manson camp and then Manson family, like those folks that are just saying, Nope, whatever you say, I'm gonna fucking do it doesn't matter Hook Line Sinker, I'm all in baby and you know what they fucking they fucking crush it. They do great. They make a fuck ton of money. Because it is a meat grinder. And off they go. Because their goal is not the goal of the people that we work with.

Tyler 34:36

Your goal needs to be a symbiotic relationship between you, your business, your staff and your members. In every direction, it needs to be that way. It needs to be mutually beneficial. And obviously you get to take plenty off the top. It's your fucking business it needs to become profitable. But if your clients are not, if the priority is not results, is that really built into what is effective? What gets them body and what gets them to stay what is going to give them the best chance of succeeding over the course of the short term without compromising the long term? Okay, that balance in doing that Oblivia investment choice, all the things we talked about the past that now works, that needs to then trickle up to the coaches, because the coaches are the ones providing that service, it doesn't need to be so much money in the coach's pockets, and so much of a intense power dynamic that they run the ship, okay, but it's got to be good enough to keep them there, keep them invested, make sure they're happy, make sure that they are doing a good job. And that involves accountability and training them and all these other things that are completely neglected. By these other things, they just assume that you like it as though staffing is not one of the most major problems in the entire industry. I can sell to come on, come on. Okay, and then from there, you and your coach, your coaches make enough money, your clients are getting results. And all of that needs to be balanced with what works for the business. What works for you at the gym, what works for you and your time, and then your family and everything like that. And then you're okay, but that is the actual bigger picture. It's not 30 leads a bleep a month. That's the numbers are throwing out Who gives a fuck? Like, is that what you got in this for when you went to open your gym? Did you say you know what? And I can't just do my life's work, I really want it to be about leads. No, you fucking idiot. If you did, we're not your guys. But if you just want to help people who actually want to get results, this is where this is , this is why we just help align everything with that. And if done right with the mind, for all those factors, the money is there. You can have your cake and eat and eat it too. You don't have to be slimy. It's not that fucking hard. You just can't let anyone tell you completely what to do. Don't just don't just run somebody else's formula. It's the worst.

John Fairbanks 36:58

And that's why we stay away from it. We hated it so much as clients of that. They were like, What the fuck is happening here.

Tyler 37:07

This is why it's interesting. For example, guys, like John and I, if we're running through our client, list people that we work with directly in the gear Academy. And with our larger code, more expensive coaching products as well, that we do. All of them are completely different. I mean, every single one is a very different business model.

John Fairbanks 37:30

Even similar businesses have a totally different very

Tyler 37:33

different models, very different product offerings. Very different approach to staffing. It's like there's more than one way to do it. There are guiding principles like I just laid out before. That's my, that's the underpinning underpinnings of success, in my opinion, is that's the feedback loop of success. It all has to work, there needs to be incentives, and then everything that that loop works, and you have something to grow. But the idea that there's only one path to that is crazy.

John Fairbanks 38:01

What and anytime anyone says that I'm talking to in any fucking capacity of your life, if they say, well, it's either A or B, and everything else is wrong, right? A is wrong B is right, then fucking run as fast as you can the other direction. Because it is fundamentally a lie there is there's a reason why whatever those things are, right, there's more than one way to skin a cat like it's those things have lasted forever, because there's more than one fucking way and anyone being like this is Go away. Go fuck yourself. It's 100% untrue.

Tyler 38:35

And so I mean, for example, we have small personal training gym, that's probably I would say 40% Personal Training 60% group fitness, occasional specialty program, we have straight up CrossFit gyms that are implementing some personal training, making some moves into semi private, we have a complete 24 hour facility with some specialty programs and personal training, but a true 24 hour gym. We have franchises that are 24 hour gym studios with personal training as well. Some of them are looking to pivot into adding some semi private stuff specialty offers. All of them do sell nutrition coaching, because again, that's a thing that is and some of them are mid implementation, or midway through starting to implement some of these services on the nutrition side, but that's again, that's aligned with what gets clients results. If we're not able to help with nutrition. We said this many times like how are they? How is anyone getting anything from you? How are they going to get results no matter how hard they work if they don't have the option to pay someone to tell them to give them help with food. So all of them do that. We have a one who is strictly with a youth sports performance facility but a whole facility for it in with this group that is semi-private: personal training, different markets, different needs, different sales, tactics, different everything, just a few principles.

John Fairbanks 40:00

MMA that's a different mixture of kickboxing and weightlifting, yes. styles of MMA.

Tyler 40:06

We have full MMA jujitsu striking youth programs. Then we have another gym that is a hybrid of a bodybuilding group fitness style spot, and kickboxing. And so there's a lot of different ways that you can do this stuff, whatever your thing is, know that you don't have to become their fucking business. You don't need to do it if you're gonna, by the way, if that's what you want it just open a fucking franchise for sure. brand recognition, and there's a little more to ride. I don't understand why people do that. And

John Fairbanks 40:37

I think that that's like, that's Goddamnit that might be one of the best points. Because it's what you buy. When you buy a franchise. What's the point? You buy the systems? Yeah, the other guys, right? All the huge gargantuan fucking consultants that are in this space? What are they trying to sell you?

Tyler 40:59

That's it system systems.

John Fairbanks 41:00

They're just fucking selling you a system, but they're the model in which they're doing it is they're just turning you into their franchise. And so that's where it is. Why didn't you not choose a franchise for a goddamn reason? Because I'm going to tell you right now is that the big boys like a big name some of the like the largest franchise in the world, their software and their systems, beat the fucking pants offer anything, any consultant is going to throw your way. So if you're gonna get a coach, they better have a lot more than just a fucking system for you to be able to plug in. Because if they don't, then you literally just chose what like to rob Peter to pay Paul like you just didn't decide to go get someone with decent fucking name recognition. You know how much better off you would have been if you just got a goddamn Anytime Fitness instead of you having your mom and pop place and then sell your fucking soul to the devil so you could get their systems because they have really pushy fucking salespeople.

Tyler 42:00

Yeah, call you a loser if you don't buy a shit. Like come on.

John Fairbanks 42:03

masculine. Your wife

Tyler 42:06

I'm gonna like it. We don't make any money this year. What do you think about how you want to provide for your family? right that we should fuck those guys. And on the other side of that, too, is like in the franchise conversation: if you're gonna get involved in these types of things where they're just telling you the system, they're telling you exactly what to do with your business. And it lacks any consideration for client results. You might as well just open a goddamn Burger King. Correct? Because you're gonna have the same impact on your community's health as well. Same thing, okay? You're not doing anything to fucking help anybody at that point. Okay, you're just saying I fuck with the fuck these people, it's just get their money. Okay, it's the wrong, it's the wrong move. You're not the good guy, if that's what you do. If you're choosing that and lieu of, if you're choosing somebody systems and money and turn and burn shit in lieu of actually just making an effort to keep the fucking train of progress and results for your clients on the goddamn tracks. Okay, if you're willing to derail that, you're not the good guy. And you gotta you do need to understand that as you're not. And that's fine. Not everybody chooses to take the high road and that's okay. But I assume some of you guys got into this business with some altruistic intentions. So fucking man the fuck up about it. Like, actually do it. Don't be a fucking coward and go oh, God, I just can't figure it out. Let me just hand it over and close my eyes and ignore what's happening around me. sucks, man. Your chips are gonna sink and it's gonna be your fault, not theirs. They'll buy it from you cheaply. So that's what we got. I got that it might be our heaviest episode in a while, guys. From fitness business consultants telling you to? How much fitness business consultants suck. Yeah, it is what it is. Hey, man, and we might not be any better. I don't know. But if you want to find out, have a chat with us and see what we say differently. If you want to talk about maybe some of these things, with some interests, and maybe the things that we could maybe help you with and how maybe we would go about it. We can chat about that. Sure. Just shoot us a DM at the gym owners podcast or at your That's real. By the way, we have a lot of those. It's also what the dudes that package him come to do. Whatever you do everyday to me, do

John Fairbanks 44:17

you have your dad

Tyler 44:21

That's for the VIPs at your dad's house.

John Fairbanks 44:25

If you want to snoop around, snoop around, look around, see the types of things that we're thinking about we dump tons of word vomit and brain matter into the gym owners revolution Facebook group. So if you want to look around, go over to gym owners revolution Facebook group, we do guard it, there are a number of ads people and consultants and all sorts of people that see that gym owners the name of the group, they try and get in and they want to be able to hit you up into your DMS and things like that. So we got it and we pretend

Tyler 44:54

there's none of that in there. It's pretty well protected when people get it. Nobody's going to ask for Bob's or machine or anything like that. So,

John Fairbanks 45:00

and you can also see Tyler nice lovely faces because that is the only place that the video version of the podcast can be found.

Tyler 45:08

That's where it is. So follow the show jailers podcast and Instagram. You follow John at Jay banks FL and you can find me at Tyler Elphinstone this Tyler eff ironstone links in the description for the Facebook group also go to gym owners If you want to click around, that's where we got the blog, back articles. You get transcripts run in there too. So yeah, go check it out. Thanks for listening, everybody and we'll see you next

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