The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/The Most Common MISSED Opportunity for CrossFit Affiliates

The Most Common MISSED Opportunity for CrossFit Affiliates

Friday, September 22, 2023



nutrition, gym, eat, clients, crossfit, diet, sell, talk, plan, coaching, coaches, teach, dudes, owners, pay, change, affiliate, tyler


  • CrossFit's failure to sell nutrition coaching and its impact on gym owners and clients. (0:00)
  • Nutrition coaching for fitness professionals. (3:47)
  • ​Nutrition education and the importance of simplifying the process for clients. (10:57)
  • Doctors' lack of nutrition advice and its impact on patients' health. (16:04)
  • Nutrition coaching and macronutrient ratios. (20:59)
  • Implementing a weight loss challenge for CrossFit affiliates. (28:22)
  • Creating and selling specialty programs for clients. (36:13)
  • Gender-specific nutrition programs. (40:45)
  • Importance of nutrition coaching for clients' success. (44:53)
  • ​Email marketing for gym owners. (50:16)


Tyler 00:00

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this week's episode of The Jim waters podcast. I'm your host Tyler stone over there's John Fairbanks i doing John,

John Fairbanks 00:07

I'm doing excellent Tyler,

Tyler 00:09

guys, we're gonna talk about one of the things that I think CrossFit has been fucking up on not CrossFit HQ. But the affiliates of CrossFit, you CrossFit, you know, it's as if I think I still technically have my level one as a former CrossFit affiliate owner. And a person who's worked with a coach taught on business coaching and coaching coaching for hundreds of different CrossFit coaches, owners, etc, hundreds of CrossFit clients that I've worked with directly, it's just an opportunity that I see a lot of CrossFit gym owners missing. And I didn't realize until a conversation we were having with one of our gym owners yesterday where I was like, Man, this is, I totally missed it. So So before we get into that, make sure you follow the show at the gym owners podcast on Instagram, make sure you go to the link in the description. There, you're going to find the Facebook group, all that jazz. So we have the gym owners revolution Facebook group, you can also check us out gym owners Let's get started. So I had this thing, I totally forgot that CrossFit does this. And so we're talking to the gym owner who had some coaches going through and getting their loved ones or getting their recertifications as well. It's kind of that season, and one of our gym owners mentioned. And it just dawned on me because we were we work with a lot of gym owners, if you've listened these past couple episodes, we think the importance of coaching your clients, or at least offering your clients nutrition coaching, or food plan or something to make sure that these people are making changes outside the gym, nutrition wise, that is like, critically important to the success of your clients, which based on our ecosystem, ecosystem principle is critically important to the success of your gym. So as we went through a section, I remembered from my level one as they still taught them the Zone diet and the blocks layout and how to make those plans and how to deliver and fulfill that service to people. Are they still doing it? And level one? He said, Oh, yeah, absolutely. Which by the way, I think rocks. Like I don't care what anybody says about any food plan as a what's the word? I don't want to use the term ideology, because it does end up like that pretty religion will get little related. It gets really stupid. But as a dogma, and especially once branding gets involved where every diet gets a name. And then there's a few public personalities that get attached to their whole I think this is good this what do you think carnivore diet? What do you think, John? I think Jordan Peterson. I think I think paleo, you think there's a few of the people that have kind of rose out of the functional fitness adjacent spaces that have covered a lot of ground in that regard. Anyway, so when we see a gym, that is struggling, or at least having a hard time selling anything beyond their base memberships, and that's the thing that we believe is a fundamental principle, when we work with gyms is that people need nutrition coaching, they should be getting it or at least getting it offered to them. And they would buy it and a person who fails to have success at weight loss, or even is struggling with their performance, most likely needs a plan, whether they buy it from you, or whether they just go scour the internet for whatever they can come across. They're, it's in their best interest to have a plan that they're sticking to.

John Fairbanks 03:47

And by need, I think is really important because it's a major part of our entire process that we teach, which is what are the goals of the clients that you're talking to? So fundamentally, you may think everybody needs it but it's like it gets really, really specific. Where does somebody have a body composition goal of any kind? Do they want to get more swore, thinner, more, whatever, if it has anything to do with them changing their body? Then the answer to that as we all know, is it just to work out more?

Tyler 04:15

Well, even if you're one of those people that says oh, well I'm actually just concerned about having PBE for health. So we make sure this and that hey wonderful I mean most of the people that say that though, are saying that instead of helping people lose weight because you suck at getting people to listen to you and helping you lose weight. That's it's like no no we just yeah, you just let's just work on healthy and it's a give them a fucking plan so they can be fucking successful. God dammit.

John Fairbanks 04:43

Are we saying though, are we all honestly like looking each other in the eye and saying that we only really are focused on people being healthy and eating for health. And if someone is a fat fuck that we're not going to help them try and lose weight. Like he's right like okay, eat for hell. off. And then a radical totally unanticipated side effect is weight loss. So great but so but don't hide from that, like it's an idea. But what we do then is we don't even have the conversation. So it's, it's it is, it's vacant and it's missing. And that's where we end up getting into a situation where your people really want the help. So what do they do Tyler, they listen to good listen to today, or Good Morning America, or they listen to whatever the fuck their aunt is talking to them about, about whatever, some bullshit new diet thing or cleanse or whatever, because that's what's happening. You have lots of people that are in your gyms, and they're doing all the shit with you, and they listen to you and they have all your trust. And then we're just not having the conversation about how they can eat that this is tied back to their goals, or whatever it is. And then they're doing some of the dumbest shit on the planet. Yeah, or whatever is popular, whatever is in the zeitgeist. Now all of a sudden, they're like, oh, do you know that like, whatever fills in the blank is that so you're, we all get to eat liver in both Testaments? Well, I don't know. Like, I don't know if the raw food is the goal here,

Tyler 06:10

liver and Trent. That's where it's at. So I think though, the detail I want to make sure that we're catching here is that you guys, if you want to be a CrossFit affiliate, every one of your coaches has gotten at least a couple of days and a pretty thorough plan, and there's handbooks and plenty of resources out there. The thing that I liked, I never did this on diet before, took my level one a long time ago, but then I kind of built it up. And essentially like My Food Plan, even when I was so I had done it as it was constructed. Because that was as it was kind of built so trying to plan via the blocks kind of and how that works. Listen to so many different things than how Weight Watchers does stuff that gets assigned points, just so it's easier to buck and track, right? I don't believe us anymore awesome or dumber than anything else. But it's, what does three blocks of this mean? Versus like set or whatever versus saying like, okay, X amount of grams of protein in this meal. Like it's for X amount of ounces of this meat in this, it's just a way of simplifying the thing so that you can put it on one flow chart. So the plan is fucking easy to come up with right now, all your coaches have been trained on this kind of right now, I'm not saying you got to tell your coaches how to eat. But one of the biggest things that we find when we talk about trying to get a gym, coach, personal trainer to like, Okay, you need to start selling nutrition coaching because these people need it, you need to start helping your people change the way that they eat whatever that is. That is a what's the word that a lot of coaches, a lot of people get jammed up on building that program, which is how do I fulfill it? What does that look like? What is it going to be and they get stuck on? Now I gotta make a new thing. I gotta make a food plan forever. I got sick. No, no, no, no, they've already given you this framework. Yeah, all your coaches can do it, all of them should be able to talk about it, all of them should be able to kind of sell it theoretically. Or at least you can always offer it. By the way, If any of your coaches can fulfill it on their own. You just commission them out and let them handle their clients on their own. That way, the ones that they connect to the most instead of it all coming back to one person who maybe doesn't work with them directly or doesn't coach their class or Isn't there one on one personal trainer?

John Fairbanks 08:19

But can I push back? What if I don't do the Zone Diet? What if I don't do the Zone diet? So and it's just it's I really truly deep down? I know that the actual success is way more complicated than what you've just described?

Tyler 08:37

Sure. Well, I would go. I think that's two parts, right? So you're not doing the Zone Diet is a pretty good indicator that you're not your target demographic or at least 100% of your demographic, I would hope. I would hope not, right? So a lot of Jamar will talk to you more as you're in your 40s Male bro lifting a lot of them. By the way, There's a lot of a lot of gym owners and coaches out there that kind of don't train the way that their gyms even teach, whatever who gives a shit, right? Listen, I don't have the same nutritional needs or plans as my 25 year old ballet dancer clients, I don't have the same needs as my 12 year old kid who's just trying to learn his way around the weight room or my 15 year old kid who's really trying to put on size, or my 40 year old client who's got 70 pounds to lose or my 30 year old client who's lost 90 pounds. It's got about 20 more to go and then it's just really focusing on performance. And at every point in that journey, their needs change. Also their interests will change. So if you don't do this on a diet, I don't give a shit. I don't do this on my own diet and I'm telling you it's just that it probably worked for your clients to be easier for yourself. And if you've got a better plan, systemize it and sell it to your people if your version of this you use and you think it's better for them. Perfect then it is on you as the person who is a professional and allegedly gives a shit about your people to get something in place that will help them be successful we talked about y'all need to be tracking your client success ratio every 12 weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks, they should be getting asked, based on the goals you set aside that you defined at the beginning of this, how close to being 100% successful in them have you been in the last 12 weeks, a lot of your people are going to be near zero if you're in if they're just eating like shit, it doesn't matter what they're doing in the gym. If they define anything regarding body composition, fat loss, weight loss, how they look at all in there, they ain't gonna like it unless they've made changes to their food and it's your job. One it's on you to be the person that's available to offer to them. Otherwise, they're gonna go to the fucking shark tank that is the internet, the internet and just zoom around and see what catches their eye which very often is just confirmation bias. Oh, good. I looked up that I can eat ice cream all I want and everything's okay. Like that's what people find when they get out there on the internet. So they're just gonna get confirmation they can do whatever they want. Oreos are

John Fairbanks 10:57

vegan Tyler. So I can just eat a steady state of Oreos, and I will lose weight. And it does. But this is where for me it really does come back down to like, like you said, it's who aren't your clients. And 90 If you live in North America, or Australia 98% of your clients don't have a fucking clue on how to eat what to eat, and they have to lose weight. Like it, just everybody looks around, looks around your communities if they need to lose weight. So then it's all about how much like you said, how much can you simplify the process and just make it easy. And that's where it's like, we ended up because we're in the fitness industry. Because we've given a shit about what we eat and how we eat for so long. We've gone full circle, and our head is firmly all the way up our ass. Yeah. And the problem is, if you have a head up your ass conversation with someone that's brand new, just trying to switch over from Mountain Dew to Diet Mountain Dew, you now have a real problem on your hands, because you just made it impossible for them to be able to make that first step. And so while everyone bickers and argues over what the fucking right thing is to do, like you said with, and now we don't have a system, but then we're arguing about Whole Foods, and we just eat anything that doesn't cast a shadow, or whatever it is, we argue about that. And none of the clients get any of the results because we can't get off the starting block.

Tyler 12:25

Yeah, if you're digging in on frickin brown rice versus white rice, you're fighting the wrong fight. Exactly. Because the difference is pretty negligible. And if your clients can be comfortable eating a kind of rice, in lieu of fucking french fries, they're doing pretty good. And those are the battles you need to fight as good versus shit not good versus better or better versus best. Again, the optimization game comes. And that's that was the thing with like, the structure that the way that they teach this old is talking simple. And again, I'm not married to him. You better teach him something, and all your staff and you have been equipped with an easy system to deliver and you're just choosing not to and whatever, right, but it's a big mistake. So if you're not going to implement that specific thing, the thing that is handed down from your affiliation to think that you're paying money to have thing that has the resources that is trained your staff on the delivering the service, then you better build something yourself in its place and know that that's going to cost you some time and a little bit of effort, but whatever. This is a need that needs to be done. And by the way, this is the thing that this is the battle that CrossFit HQ had fought under the Glassman era, the thing that I think they did well, in my opinion, one of the if I was the business, I'm not doing this. I'm not spending millions and millions of dollars to sue Coca Cola, what I'm doing is keeping all that money, and then selling my business to some schmuck and then getting the fuck out. Because that's probably what I would have done if I was Glassman long, long before I was going to just be like getting litigious with Coke and Pepsi and a bunches of like, you know, nefarious research funding that's gone on like just, but they fought that battle, in my opinion. Because it mattered. Yeah, because it misrepresented their brand and it was confusing their people. When you start teaching like okay, you need to have some carbs, you need to have some healthy fats and then you need to have this and people that watch if that was but like, you end up when you have to educate people from zero on nutrition, you realize how fucking fucked up the general what's the word the zeitgeist is regarding regarding nutrition, whether it's what their parents taught them, which is a bunch of patterning that exists for at least a couple three decades some hang on to that forever, whether what they're fed in school, whether what they're taught in school, and that's about as far as it goes. The rest is just the internet and it's you get people that will get educated on nutrition and they got a little more but like your doctors on a football, no button about nutrition whereas when any of you out there by the way, and I highly encourage you when somebody asks you If you have a client who says, Well, maybe why are you qualified? I've never even been asked this, by the way, why? Why am I qualified to be teaching nutrition? There might even be fuckin state. State rules about whether you can or can't based on whatever and I'm gonna tell you this, no matter what state you're in, my advice to you is, I don't fucking care, you still need to teach your people how to eat. I don't fucking care whether you have to be a dietitian or I don't even know what the rules are and what you can and can't say, and I can tell you violate those rules. 100% This is like fucking this is this is like COVID rules. Now that shit comes down again, they're telling you to close your business. Fuck them. Stay open. Someone comes out and says oh, you can't be teaching your clients how to eat food. You don't have a registered dietitian. Tell them to fuck off. Or say humbly? Yes. Okay. Well, I'll stop and then continue to do it. Because your people need it. It's crazy. But it is on you to do it. It's absolutely on you to do it. And when you get out there teaching these people you realize nobody knows anything. And one of the first questions you ask people when they ask if anyone brings up Well, geez, how can we do this? Or is it just to say when was the last time your doctor asked you what you ate? Never, by the way, did I go to the doctor because I was overweight, like 15 years ago. And they're like, Oh, we never said anything. I had pain that was obviously related to being heavy. never said anything about changing when I never said anything about how I should exercise. Never. Absolutely not. So I've another funny story here. So my sister was like, getting sick, lots of stuff, symptoms were all over the place. But really sick would get rundown like digestive stuff, inflammation stuff, it was all over the place to the point where it dragged on for six, eight months. Like it kept it to the point where they began sending her to an endocrinologist and neurologist, sure, right for hours away having to drive for these things. Finally, they get to this neurologist who's like a specialist. And he goes in and he's like, I just have a food allergy. Probably let's run this test. And sure enough, like just extreme allergy to gluten gluten products and things like this to the point though, where it was like fucking her up bad, like really bad. Again, escalate the referrals all the way, all the way to a neurologist four hours away that you're going to like that's, that's a long road, right? And Megan's or my sister said, you know, not a single doctor even considered anything that I'm putting in my body, not whether I drink too much, not whether I eat too much, not what I'm eating, not at all, never asked. Never write down what you eat in a week. Like, let's just see what's going on, like, just be honest, and see what's going and don't even consider it. So I can tell you, they're not being taught anything. I've taught doctors, I've taught surgeons, I've coached surgeons, I've coached doctors, anything they're not they're not coming out of school equipped with what it takes, or the willingness to teach people what they should eat, and being willing to make those changes. I know why my doctors, and why a lot of local doctors, and what's the word of Family Physicians and shit like that, why they don't make food recommendations and why they don't say you need to start eating better, you need to lose weight and why? Look at the people you see. Okay, they're going around, and they're going to make that recommendation. 100 times 80 of those people are going to be mad at them for making that recommendation. And how dare you tell me what to do? I'm fat. Yeah, that's my favorite. I don't remember what it is that a guy comes in from my 600 pound life. So I didn't come in here for a lecture. I don't know. I don't know, man. But, but and then and then when you do try to make that, even if you know that's the answer, and you give them the answer. And they ignore it completely. But they had high blood pressure and they had all these health issues. If you didn't medicate them, then knowing that that would have moved that symptom down, that blood pressure down if you didn't medicate them then and they have a heart attack two months later, while they continue to eat like shit, it still ends up kind of falling on your plate for not having offered the solution that you had in front of you. And people's behaviors don't change as a doctor, as a doctor I could consider it would be very, I can empathize that telling people to change the way they eat and to exercise and they just won't fucking do it for the 100th time and they'll be mad at you. I get it. I get it sucks. So I understand why they don't do that. Which is why you out there your gym owners, you coaches if your people are coming to you to make that change. Okay? They're asking you for that by coming to you saying I want to lose weight. They're saying I need your help to lose weight, okay, and that they may just want your gym access. They may just want your CrossFit classes, they may just want your personal training. But for them to be successful. They have to make those changes and why would you not have one of your services, again that you're equipped to do? That goes hand in hand with the things you're doing in the gym is built on the trust that you already have with them. Why would you not put those things together and offer them to these people? Doesn't have to be the premium. But it should be enough towards worth it for you to do with a few coaches and goddamnit. If you make extra money, and your clients success ratio doubles, which it probably would for those that buy nutrition coaching, especially if they're held accountable to it. I just don't I don't know where the hiccup was? What are we fucking What are we missing here? I don't understand. And I don't understand why it's not done more often. I don't understand why all these CrossFit gyms have these nutritional philosophies, it's Whole Foods, it says they'll have them and they don't fucking teach it. They don't sell it. They don't offer it's not a service. Well, what are you a fucking preacher, you're just gonna yell into the void and every once in a while through a recipe out on your Instagram or something. Like if it's not systemized, it doesn't exist. And it certainly isn't going to continue to provide that feedback loop of success, create that ecosystem of success that we talked about here, you're just completely missing the boat.

John Fairbanks 20:59

And that's why it was a lightbulb moment for both of us. We were listening to this gym owner, and he laid it out, we're like, wait a second, one of the largest. Probably not the largest franchise, but largest affiliate, in the world. Elite type setup in the world with CrossFit. It's, like we said, the first problem is how do we narrow down what you're supposed to eat? Done? Check over zone, boom, got it, then it's gonna be okay. Right? It's just not that that's because this is what we all know to be true. What's the best? Like, what's the, you know, is the German Volume Training Tyler? Is it the conjugate method, like, what's the best level for ins, it's whatever the fuck you continue to do. You just do that thing. Do it for like 12 weeks, and don't get hurt. If you can do those things, you'll just get stronger. So then you can literally say, Well, I train calves first. And that's why I'm stronger. Well, great. Now you have a calf program, like, it doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't matter. So make the choice, boom, done, check, the next biggest problem that most of you guys are running into, because this is what we run into with every gym owner that doesn't just have a thing of it already running with which is like, Yeah, but like, I gotta get it launched. And then I gotta make these things like, boom, CrossFit is done, it's got you have all the resources that you need. So now you check that box. So literally, the only thing you have to do is talk about it. Like, just talk about it. And that's where for us it was, it is you all have the two hardest steps done. Every CrossFit gym has to, and because a lot of times too, you need to get the buy-in from like your staff, where people like to know about it. So now if you have this proprietary, whatever the fuck thing, now you got to get everybody else trained on it, it's like don't like everyone already has to have done it. So you kind of have everybody already on the same page. So 80% of the heavy lifting is done. You literally just this is where for us, it came so naturally, where it's like, oh, well, whenever we talk about being able to fold in body composition services, tracking those metrics and having some type of a nutrition bolt on service that's inside of our natural offer stack system that we teach. We're never talking about what that system is. It just is. That's the placeholder. It's whatever you need. And I think also from the marketing end, is where most of the mistakes do get made. There's just like you said, it's like, well, no, I talk about what we do nutritionally because I put out like a recipe or I do this or I do that. And it's not specific enough. Like we're too vague in general, to where it's like nutrition coaching shouldn't be marketed as and we've talked about this before, but it's it doesn't get talked about as nutrition coaching the

Tyler 23:43

food plan it's a plan and a plan

John Fairbanks 23:45

Weight loss it's a plan for muscle gain. It's a plan for whatever it is, it fits that need so it ends up being instead of a nutrition coaching program. It is 10 pounds in the next two months. It is my inches off program. It is a Muscle Gaining program. It's losing your dad bad dad bod program like whatever it is.

Tyler 24:08

I had someone inquire about one of my remote coaching products that last week four close up and say, well, what's the difference? You mentioned? Can we do it for fat loss or muscle gain? What's the difference? Like? Well, one of them you're gonna eat more? One of them you're gonna eat less, bro, what are we talking about here? Like it's not that hard. Like, I don't need to build two entirely different things for these people. Now there's other ways to do this by the way like but I think all nutrition coaching is not forever okay, this is important so people go I want to teach them how to eat for life great, but they got to work with you. You gotta they gotta be listening to you at all and they're not going to unless they pay you Okay, so you can't just sit there and preach fucking brown rice is better than white rice or, or why you should have almonds and not cashews or, or this type of stuff like None of that is that important. You just need to get them listening to you on a plan and be successful. And then through that plan, you start to build healthy habits, right so I don't care if it's by them it was a funny zone essentially. It was like 40% protein and 30 and 30% carbs and fat, right? And so one or whatever, but But in that that's basically the breakdown or what it ends up coming down to, which is like, pretty much the way when I was by going through like a full on dietitian for like my muscle gain and stuff that I was doing when I was like really trying to put on sighs when I was competing, this exact same thing was the exact same ratio, by the way, go hire someone for coaching your macros Do you think they need to make tweaks to your macros? Nah, you're gonna fall somewhere on there, put too much in there, almost all of them, unless they're really a low carb thing. But then it's just gonna be fuckin just WAY less carbs and just delete the fucking cars out there. And then everything else kind of works out. And so I think that everybody worries so much about having to have this optimal thing, we're just gonna, like, make one little nudge. And while I'm with that, sometimes these people need to just get on the fucking train, right. And that's what I do. When I do my nutrition coaching now, I used to just give this nice, soft plan and I still kind of do or like, here's your calories, here's your protein marks, here's what's acceptable, here's not. And now when I coach people in these, shorter, more defined lengths of time. It's not just one plan that you take off and run with, we're gonna be strict as shit for like a month, little over a month, like like, it's real tight, right? It's like your quantities gonna be tighter than you want, you're gonna learn that stuff, you're gonna learn what it's like to feel like, we're going to address your habits of feeling hungry, we're going to do some fasting during another one of the weeks so that you learn the difference between being bored and being hungry. But all of that comes from just implementing some basics, still, there's a framework that they're working within, and they're checking in with me every morning. That's it. And so from that, you have the opportunity to change the behavior. And when it's all said and done, they're going to know, they're going to know, there's some things that happen when nutrition and habits, whether it's people that are food addicts, drug addicts, whatever, a seed gets planted in your head. And even while you're acting poorly behaving wrong, whether you're doing the wrong things, once it's in your head, it sits there and you know, and you know, but you're not going to get that be able to plant that seed and people at all if they don't open the door for you and allow you to be in there and help them with this. They're not yours if you're not working with them on it, they don't give a shit there's nothing you're going to say from the outside that's going to really have that big effect. So get in this is how this is how you get as I don't give a shit of his own, which people are trained on. modify it, if there's literally like a really specific change in there something you don't want to allow. Cross it out. Like fucking No. You have all these resources. And it's you that can pretty much easily deliver things and your staff are already trained on it. You're not doing it. So that's been the starting point. Get people started listening to you trusting you paying you for nutrition coaching, because they need it. You already have it? And I don't know Are you rich yet? Are all of you guys killing it like fully? Like how do you need more money? 100% of my people lose weight, they want to lose like okay, then you're fine. And we're not for you. So

John Fairbanks 28:22

they have you if you're like if you're a CrossFit affiliate, you have all these things we talked about that let's talk about then what are the things that you are missing? So what are the things you're missing? What can we start to do right now to fold them, like very practically. So it's, we're assuming you've made a decision, you've picked a thing, you have resources for that thing, if you don't, and it's like that, and then we have to, then you need to get on a call with us and talk to us about how we build out how you batch out a whole bunch of shit and make a bunch of shit. Don't Don't do that. Because if you are a CrossFit affiliate, you already have all the resources you need GOT members,

Tyler 29:00

you got materials you have the plan exists out there, the guide book, everything,

John Fairbanks 29:06

because because the very first thing if you're gonna roll this out, and you're gonna take this from a very practical approach, you do not need to plaster your fucking social media with a whole bunch of shit. Because what you're gonna do is you're gonna get really hyped about it, you're gonna post that one fucking time today, you're never going to talk about it again. And then you're gonna say, Hey,

Tyler 29:25

This is good. Oh, really? Yeah. And what you're gonna do is you're gonna make one post about it, you can sell it externally what you do so that people know you do it. That's the main thing or inside people know you do it. What I highly recommend, so if you want to implement this starting right now don't need to implement this as if it's an ongoing thing that goes on forever. I don't think you need to do that at all. I think what you do is I think you have kind of a sit down consultation thing, one of the beginning one in the end, and an ongoing process. These are maybe 20 minute conversations, each of these things right? I would sell it in eight weeks. probably, in my opinion, eight weeks, maybe 12 over the long haul. But I would sell this to your existing people as a challenge as well as a fixed thing. And I would run an email out, say, Hey, guys, we're going to run his own challenge, here's kind of how it works roughly, but like get in pay so that they can pay your existing people give them a nice discounted rate, if they get in early on this first run. Let's go and we'd like to track and see how much weight you guys lose whatever the give them an opportunity to reinvest, this doesn't even need to be too premium and because the next iteration of this will be folded into your offer stack. People will be coming in, they will be choosing it as an add on for their existing services. And that's, that's the way to sell it internally, sell it as a challenge, sell it for a fixed timeframe. And be strict with the people that want to fuck around. This is a framework man, it is nice that it is just a framework it's got there's boundaries live within it. And if you're gonna have exceptions, you need to define the exceptions so that people don't bounce around and skip all over control, right. And so, but I think that process makes this thing, move, you're gonna get prac paid practice of fulfilling it, you don't have to build a bunch of social media resources or anything like this, or truly fulfillment resources, if you're going to try and make a bunch of PDFs and fucking sell it, make it work for these people. And then everything you learn and everything you deliver on there, you'll be able to process it or turn it into a process, or level up the delivery of it. So that the next version of this now sits great, but you need to get paid to make that and that's where everybody fucks up. Correct. We make it from scratch and it's so much work that you're better at making and you're so in love with what you made that then the way you try to sell it sucks because you try to sell it the way you made it and you're like it's super thorough and it's got all these lovely features and nobody gives a fuck no. They want a food plan slash diet depending on when they don't want nutrition coaching. Nobody wants nutrition coaching, I use those I use that term because I'm talking to you guys. People want to think about diet, it works, people coaches get all clammy about it. Because they're like, Well, I mean, a diet, a diet implies that you won't be doing it from Get your head out of your ass. It means the same thing to them. They want to be told what to eat. Okay, so we're gonna tell you what to eat, how to do it in a way that's easy to track. You don't have to weigh all your shit forever, you'll get a good eye for things, and it's going to work for you. And we're going to run this for eight weeks, we're going to help you figure it out. We're gonna work with you the whole way. We're gonna check your progress before, during and after y'all are gonna kill it. Let's go. I want to

John Fairbanks 32:31

push back even more. Is that a diet? It's not even a diet. Do you know what the people want? Whatever the fuck they tell you. They want that's true. Yeah, you don't I mean, like, that's what this is. And that's what's always so crazy to be where it's like, we sell personal training, we sell nutrition, we sell supplements. And we get really, really intensely again up our own ass sniffing our own farts when it comes to oh, this is what the protein is broken down into. This is what it's made out of. And this is all the nutritional facts about it. And this is all this that it's like no, no, no, no. Does somebody want to lose weight? Yes, great. This is the solution. Well, this will help me lose weight. Sure. Well, do you want to lose weight? Yes, I do. Great. This is the solution. Okay, like it said, that becomes what it is, that is where it's like whoever wants to gain weight, lose weight, whatever those things are, again, if it has anything to do with body composition, then this is the solution. It just like and that's where we become become start to become more hyper obsessed over what the goals your people have are and the fact that you have solutions that will then just help them get that in stops and start selling their targets start selling their goals back to them instead of just selling whatever the fuck you want to call your special thing unless you have a really fun name like dudes rock or the get thick program and you can call it that as much as you'd like.

Tyler 33:57

Yeah, run with it. So I what by the way, what can we take away for people that aren't CrossFit affiliate owners John obviously still from this conversation we had if you don't own a CrossFit affiliate, which of our listeners probably about a third of them? Are CrossFit affiliate owners the rest is pretty even just distribution from out there from the rest. But if you don't own a CrossFit affiliate, what is your nutritional philosophy that you personally have? Because obviously your personal alignment with how you eat what you prioritize for how you define your nutritional habits? What they do that exist is one out there already aligns with that the best because you're better off taking that into and running with it. And just make it your own. Like you're coaching people to do that. You don't even need to say we're doing the Zone Diet by the way, let me encourage that. For sure. You're running your diet. This is your plan. This is we're gonna teach you how to eat Don't be preaching the zone. This is where everybody fucks up. Everyone likes paleo. It's just fucking Atkins. It's a carb stop. Put like the brand brand at yourself.

John Fairbanks 35:02

One of our, one of our most successful versions of this exact thing is we had a gym owner that we were working with. And he's just I cannot get the nutrition program to sell. I cannot get it. His posts have really pretty photos of veggies and raw meats and all sorts of stuff. He's like, he's not moving. And we just like, just call it the hunter diet, because the Dude we're talking to is first name is Hunter. So this is the part it worked. That was it. So it's the CrossFit Albuquerque diet. What is your diet?

Tyler 35:39

Yeah. So that's, and so for you guys out there, find the thing that you align with the most by the way, if it's just teaching macros, then fine if that's the system you really are most versed in and your staff can, I would love it if your staff could sell and fulfill like really just set a commission, but you manage them go, you can set some guidelines, but but like whatever it is, what is the easiest way to bundle resources and information for it, and then give that information to the people walk them through it say let's set this up with you. And then off you go. But that's the starting point. I also think for all of you guys out there. Regardless of the type of gym you have, selling this internally, is really goddamn good practice for selling specialty programs, things like that, but but an eight week, you know, diet challenge a week, I don't I don't care. I hate it when people shit on terminology. I do it a little bit. But the shit on it in general is like, Dude, I don't know you as long as you're speaking to what they think it is. I kind of don't care if people like a food challenge man. Like if you make a trend, listen, I make a lot of social media content that falls flat on its face, because it's just me doing what I want to do. Anyway, one fucking thing about a pre workout smoothie that I like to take, and it'll go nuts. Yeah, things will get tons of people's views, it gets shared more than any other thing I've made. Whatever. But it's valuable. People want just a little tip, they want just a little challenge, I want a little bit of guidance for this month, I want a month, they don't want to be told they need to change the way they eat forever, for 36 years. That's the reason for that type of fear. And the resistance that comes from that, like you need to change the way you eat forever, is that fear is the reason that your doctor doesn't even bother bringing it up to people, no matter how much weight they need to lose. He's like, if I can deal with this, every time I tell somebody, they got to change the way they eat for life and for health, they fucking flip out or they don't do it. It's not worth my time or effort, your doctor has already learned that. And he deals with a lot more people than you do over the long haul.

John Fairbanks 37:39

I can promise you too, if you get too hung up. So if you don't have all the resources, and you don't have the things to be able to run with this, and you're not a CrossFit affiliate, I promise you, whatever you make, won't be exactly what your people need. And this is where if you're starting this, you want Tyler to have a nice favorite thing. So what I would do is I would stay in the pocket, pitch it and sell it to your internal people first, just like we said, but stay really specific. If it's me, I want to stay. Either people want to lose 10 pounds, they want to lose, or they want to gain 10 pounds. And I want to talk like I want to have a very specific group that I'm going to target. And then I'm just going to ask them in that 20 minute meeting, like you said, intro and then the close out meetings, what is it? Where there are any roadblocks. What do you need help with? What have been the struggles? What are you looking to do better this time around? If you whatever, whatever they say, they're gonna say, you know, I've had a really hard time whenever I go out to eat, I have a hard time when I go to the grocery store. I have a Trump whatever the answers are. That then if you feel so motivated, that now tells you Oh, all right, well, I could I could throw something together that has to do with this specific thing. And because you're going to essentially beta test this for money, not for free. It's worth your time, even at that discounted rate, where you've made some stuff people have paid you to make some of these things for the first time ever opposed, do you feel like you said, screaming into the void and putting in a whole bunch of work. Again, remember, if you build it, they will come to the SIOP to keep you poor. So it lets people pay you to do some of these things. And then it's there. And now this is something you have forever for that style of client. And as you build those things naturally, as people need them, you'll save so much more time, and it'll be customized to exactly what they need. And your customer success ratio will go up because do you think someone's going to be successful? If you ask them? What do you need to be successful? You listen to them, you then build that thing and say, Hey, I'm going to give you this to help you be successful. At the end of it, their success is going to be pretty goddamn high. And they're going to be stoked, and then they're gonna want to do like, this is how you do specialty programs, too many of us get hung up on, I have a cool idea. I want to do a thing that has nothing to do with what clients want to do. And then it feels like you're just fucking walking through three feet of snow up to your knees, and you're just slogging through and it sucks, as opposed to being like, hey, what do you guys want? What do you guys like? What do you want to do? What are you? What are the things that you're trying to achieve? Then you just make that thing and then sell it to them. And then magically, they want it.

Tyler 40:31

And it's also what is specifically what is being delivered is not that important. As long as it's on track, a caloric deficit will get them where they want to go. Like for most people, they just need something to adhere to. Exactly, they're adhering to nothing. Therefore they're always going to be swinging a bit too hard or leaning a bit too far right or left or, or jumping a bit too far on the calories. There's just they're always going to be doing too many things wrong. They're not going to just blindly touch every base the way that they need to right it's just not going to happen. So one of the things that works is I branded my program very specifically dudes rock dudes, it's all dudes do and stuff. Hey, dudes, and it just works as funny right? borders on hyper masculine news of everything we could do to not be offensive about it, but it was pretty damn good. Like everybody needs an excuse to put dx drop in the socket on their fucking branding if you can put that in. You're having a good day as far as I'm concerned as a dude. The more times you can use the stone cold entrance music in your stuff you're winning as far as I feel me and the dudes I hang out with that rules right? Except the program is the same exact thing I would do with women except I would just word the paragraphs that I'm delivering to them in the intro documents differently and what they would be doing is identical. So here's what's gonna happen. My wife is going to sell a very girl branded version of the same exact thing. Now I actually made the joke because I got you guys you got your you launch your silly girl boy girl brain nutritions. But no, but her thing all she'll have to do is rewrite the intro so we rebrand it and she just sells it to her people for about 30 minutes just to lose weight. So it's just weight loss and we're gonna obviously have to adjust some quantities for the women that are my size but that's that that really is it right so so the brand and the outcomes the desired outcomes attract the people. Right? This is the crazy extreme fuck off five months to get dope. Go fuck yourself program right. And the dudes unwanted want that and I but I had a couple of women message me like, Oh, hey, is this just for men? And I was like, if I'm being honest. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you're gonna read the way I'm sending you. My delivery on some of the stuff is like, Yes, this one. It's not for women. I said, but if I'm being honest, the program itself, like what you would be doing is exactly the same. I said, but I promise it's just not gonna be the vibe. And I'm like, But Megan's gonna roll it out for checks here in the next couple of months. We'll just keep an eye on that. Right? But knowing this is the same thing. It's the same thing. I'm just changing the way I'm talking about it to the people. That's it. And the way that I'm delivering it is gonna be done in a different tone. But that's what coaching is anyways, right? If I'm coaching a 40 year old housewife versus coaching a 30 year old, former athlete who just really wants to still be going hard, they're going to be doing some similar things in the gym, but I gotta treat them differently. I got to talk to them differently to rein them in with different motivations and things like this. It is pretty and one of the reasons I was actually worried because this I was tempted by the way the guy that sells I was just gonna be like, Yeah, fuck it. I signed this girl up for the dudes program like what? Except I had already written the stuff that I was sending out and there's stuff in there I was like, I was like, listen, dudes rock dudes do not be stopping and getting some sweet soda drink or getting candy bars or whatever I said like if you need like needing a sweet treat in the daytime is for chicks and kids so absolutely fucking though dudes rock dude, it's just gonna need some fucking candy midday fuck off. Like just you're going to eat them on lunch that's gonna get to be whatever and you're not going to be eaten bullshit like me snacking all day fuck off. Okay, so that level of firm communication I just didn't want to expose so poor unsuspecting lady to me it'd be like candies for chicks. But what makes for a fun conversation amongst the homies Yeah. And don't let the wrong people in but it was also fun you we did the actual kind of jokingly went about it where I was like what is it The Sandlot? What is it? Little Rascals was like No girls allowed. No girls allowed. No girls allowed. Sorry. But yeah, so that's what we got again. Let me fold this into our larger picture though. Right so last couple episodes, John and I went pretty hard at The ecosystem principle and client success ratio. And I think it's very important that nutrition coaching or maybe not attrition culture, let me rephrase that your clients need to to be changing the way that they eat in order for them to change the way that they look, they cannot just come in and move one single variable, zero exercise, change that to a number to some exercise just doesn't work forever, it'll work until it stops. And depending on how misaligned their diet is, you may not even outpace the weight, they've been gaining or worse, they just stay the same. And there's nothing worse than working hard in the gym. Like really showing up and working hard and just having it not produce. And some people don't know, they don't understand quantities, or they don't understand how far some of the stuff they're doing that's out of balance, like how far out of balance it is, and what it's really costing them. So they need some guidance, your people need to fix the way they eat in order for them to be successful. That's it. And by the way, they need to know how they should eat, even if they're being successful now, okay, they got to know some principles so that they can make corrections for themselves in the future, they can always get guided to the True North Star. So that is a requirement. Okay, to optimize the success that your clients are having. And if you don't care about that, we don't give a shit about you and your gym, or how successful you are financially, or how much money you or your family makes, if you don't give a shit about whether or not your clients are actually getting the things that they're paying you to get, then shut this thing off. And go fuck yourself, because you're just listening to the wrong show here, right. But if you actually care, it made an impact in your community, that's just it's got to be a thing. Whatever it is that you do to get them to change that behavior, I'm fine with by the way, if I believed that giving this service away, and making it as a PDF bundle guide that using all the resources that CrossFit gives, and you just give it as a as a handout, when someone comes in signs up, I if you think that if I believed that that would work as well as them paying you what I'd say do that, whatever that is, I'm not saying that it has to be that a gift makes you money. I'm saying it has to make them successful. Whatever it is, I believe paying you makes them invested, it makes them pay attention, John, people who pay more pay more attention. This is the truth. Here it is. So that's why this is the path as far as I'm concerned. But whatever version, by the way, if you just sing an acute song every morning is going to make them change the way they eat for the better and make them more successful. Keep singing that fucking song. I don't care what it is that you got to do. But that needs to be on your radar. Because what you're doing in class exercise is important. But John, what's the difference between like, good, highly focused, great exercise that's like the most optimized versus something that says is like, half is good. Like, it still is just gonna matter regarding calories that you're consuming. Like fucking hardly any what's the difference? Right? It's not much, it might be like one more bite of a candy bar day, right? Is the difference between like, the perfect workout program, and one that's a little bit like, not as perfect. It just was the best. Yeah. So, if you people need to understand that exercise, while it's impactful, and it's important, it is not nearly as impactful to the physique as nutrition and it's just not if I used to hate that you can't outwork a bad diet. I used to hate that thing because it was catchy. And as the years go on in this industry, it's the thing that I find to be the most true. So the most fundamental truth is that I've seen it all and I would rather have somebody not pay me for coaching. For gym coaching. I would rather say go walk, go outside , do stuff with your friends, and be more active, right? But fix the way you eat first and if you're going to do one or the other nutrition, not exercise, y'all you can always go walk. You don't need a gym, but you need to fix the way you eat. And we have

John Fairbanks 49:08

got to be maybe 40 episodes ago 30 episodes ago, but you did a whole episode all about like the ultimate down sell. Yeah, which was the nutrition code. Like it's this that holds so much power inside of your gym. Because everything we talk about as we have really gone hard in the whole drawing the line in the sand of life, what is that we believe in? Like Tyler and I and as an organization for gym owners revolution, that it's the foundation of client success. Everything you do, everything we do has to be built and founded on the success of the clients that you work with. And so that's where the ultimate that down sell episode comes back full circle because it's even if they don't have the means or the money to pay you You for a coached product or access to your gym to train, you can make a difference still in that person's life to make them successful, just by providing that service for them to walk away with something to help them eat, or to help them do better like it just as it you don't know what will eventually bring people back to you. So this is where you want to have some of these levers that you can pull in your business. Because too many of you are one trick ponies, too many of you have a single membership that you think by just jamming it full of shit. And all of the best possible things that could ever exist inside of this unlimited membership is how you're going to help people. And you just we all know that that's just if you step back and get out of your own way, just a little bit. We all know that. That's not how anything works. Yeah, no one continues to just be like, oh, yeah, you can keep giving me more and more and more free shit. To then like they're not going to take advantage of that is a psychological phenomenon, just as you have to pay, I will go running because I bought new shoes. Yeah, I will go lift because I bought new straps. Like it just is. There's a piece here that instead of using that psychology for evil and for bad and taking advantage of people, use it for good. And that's fundamentally where that client success foundation comes from.

Tyler 51:26

And at the end of all of that, right, we're all that comes around. So they're paying you more money. They're paying you more money if this is what many would consider this an upsell. It's not when presented this way. It's them choosing a better path forward than being given a choice. Don't box it in, don't force it on. Now, it's not something you have to go in, would you like to buy our nutrition coaching package? Know if the conversation is rooted in them being successful, Perfect Day, everybody knows they eat the wrong way. Everyone who eats the wrong way knows they're doing something wrong. Everyone knows the benefit of a plan now. Will they prioritize within their budget and their buying habits and their current financial situation and their actual willingness to make the change? Will that float to the top and be financially be a decision they make with their checkbook today? That's a decision for them to make, not you. But you are making that decision for them. By not having nutrition coaching as a part of this conversation. That's the problem. So you're talking. So it needs to be a part of the conversation. I'm all about gyms out there that are offering nutrition value and little bit of guidance and in your social media offering value, hey, here's why I like this over this. Hey, that's great. But like you need to actually be helping people do this and implement this. Like all things, like all concepts. Jonathan, a lot of business seminars in my day, right? Fitness seminars, business seminars, seven business seminars that are not within this industry sales seminars that are not within this industry sales seminars that are within this industry. The number one thing that is the determining factor of whether or not the principle is being defined and taught at the seminars and these conventions, whether or not they're successful, the number one determining factor is implementation. So it does not matter how much information you give away, it does not matter what information you have, if it's better or worse, it won't matter at all if you can't help people implement them. So success or failure within a diet plan, a food plan or whatever to change it or in a business or in whatever your new strategy is, it lives or dies on the implementation. That's it. So people who need to make the change, they will pay you to make sure that they implement that. I need to know what to implement. And will you help me implement that? That's it. That's what this service is. So it's not about what is better than the other what it's like, no, what is it? And can you help me implement it? And then you're going to be fine. So implementation is key. And that's where everything is. Everything else is out there. It's just information. That's the biggest one information without implementation is a fucking How do I put this is an absolute endless void, with more and more and more and more information in it. Okay, find something, it'll probably work, okay, and teach people how to implement it. That's it, guide them to the implementation, that's everything.

John Fairbanks 54:24

If you need help, identify what it is that you need to be working on. If you feel like you're going in circles, you feel like everything we've laid out all sounds like good ideas, but you have no idea where to start. And you need help on implementing. Right? This is what Tyler and I do. Right? This is what we do within the gear Academy. This is where we go and we work one on one with gyms in specific areas of whatever they need help with whether a personal trainer coach or a gym that's trying to move the needle and is ready to get out of their own way and just needs that accountability and needs the ability to then go implement, reach out to us. This is what we do. This is why it gets me excited to wake up every single day and be able to work with gym owners and fitness professionals that want to make their clients better and are willing to invest in themselves and invest in those clients to be able to actually do something instead of continuing just to spin their wheels.

Tyler 55:19

That's it. Get on board, get on the train. So go to tomorrow's for gear Academy, or you can message me or John, I'm Tyler episode on Instagram, John is Jay banks, NFL on Instagram. If you have questions about the gear academy or want us to send you you know, kind of a little bit of a bulleted list of what we cover, what we don't cover, what it is, what it isn't. Send us a message for the show at the gym owners podcast. Get in the link in our description to join the Facebook group gym owners revolution. We'll keep adding more people and keep adding more stuff. So yeah, anything else we want to get out today? Any big news? Now that I've seen nothing, there's nothing else going on out there guys. So thanks a lot for listening to everybody and we will see you next week.

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