The Gym Owners Blog/Podcast/CrossFit Price Hike: What it REALLY means

CrossFit Price Hike: What it REALLY means

Friday, December 08, 2023



crossfit, affiliate, people, brand, classes, methodology, gym, coach, john, fitness, training, owners, price, level, business, hq, variation, programming


  • CrossFit affiliate fee increase and business resilience. (0:00)
  • CrossFit affiliation requirements and quality control. (5:09)
  • CrossFit's price increase and affiliate quality control. (12:36)
  • CrossFit methodology and ownership. (16:09)
  • CrossFit affiliation and pricing. (22:39)
  • CrossFit affiliates and franchises. (28:11)
  • CrossFit training for kids and teens. (32:53)
  • CrossFit methodology and coaching quality. (36:29)


Tyler 00:00

Ladies and gentlemen welcome this receptacle gym or top gym owners Podcast coming in hot I'm your host Tyler stone over there John Fairbanks How are you doing John? Taylor? So this week's emergency episode we're double dipping in here for your big announcement in the functional fitness space CrossFit HQ Making Moves making waves some love it some hate it. We're gonna cover the good, the bad, the ugly, the panic, shit, you shouldn't really give a shit about what it really means? Does it mean anything in the grand scheme of things? Before we get started? Make sure you join the gym owners revolution Facebook group links in the description go to gym owners If you want to work with us directly have us help you make your business KickAss. Let's go. So let's get right into the news . I believe there's two major stipulations from CrossFit HQ that they're requiring now for you to maintain your affiliation, right. So to be able to use the CrossFit name, which was always kind of the only benefit, in my opinion, of being a CrossFit affiliate. Now you have to pay $3,000. Now it's $4,000. Right? There's a 40 540 500% increase. Now that issue is so before it was 3000 the issue everybody before it was 3000 when it was cheaper was grandfathered in up to that point. Everyone who was making the sweet deal at 500 bucks a year 1000 bucks a year or 1500 bucks a year or 2000 year they were that price was fixed now everybody goes to 4500 Yep. Now does that suck if your business is like if you're used to having a bill that was $500 a year, whatever? 45 bucks a month and now it's 400 a month? Does that suck? Yes. Does it fucking matter to your business? If that financially matters to your business at that point, you've been fucking up so bad and Scott's getting so close to the failed line of failure financially. They're like I don't know what to do I don't know what to say if you've been open so long that this 120 $550 a month on $25 A month increase for the right to continue to use the brand that you're build upon that we'll get into the good and bad and ugly for that as far as what that brand really is worth to you. But I fucking fuck off. I don't know if people are being babies about it. I get upset because what is CrossFit doing for you? Not much more they're not doing anything more for you for this is just a price race. But I think it's kind of silly. Like Don't be crazy about it because look at John you and I work at franchises right franchise gyms. We also work with franchises and other businesses and restaurants hospitality and otherwise what people pay on a fucking for upfront and on an annual basis for the rights to use the name of fucking something that means a lot less in your market in those markets than say CrossFit does in the fitness market. would make you always all shit your goddamn pants. It doesn't make any sense to me, people freaking out over $150 a month, raise in like your right to use this brand name

John Fairbanks 03:03

when you're talking like a yearly fee for CrossFit is like a monthly fee.

Tyler 03:08

Yep, definitely.

John Fairbanks 03:09

That's definitely it. Yeah.

Tyler 03:11

So it's like this is a thing where like, if this hurts you, you've been so bad at this for too long. And it's like if I said, frankly, somebody's need. It's a thing I said about COVID stuff in the beginning. And well granted, I'm not super stoked, that, you know, I think the government may be closing up some businesses for a lot longer than I even would have expected. But in the beginning, it was like, Are you resilient enough actually, in your business to What if something happened? And you couldn't do business for two or three months? Like are you set up to actually be resilient? There's your business set up to survive? Is there some cash reserves? Are you resourceful enough? Does your business have enough resources to keep your employees keeping the lights on? How does this work? And what I find, especially in the functional fitness space, is that a lot of these businesses are not resilient at all. Nor are the personalities at the head of their businesses. Because I'm just reading I see people fucking whining about it constantly. Well, just complaining about the affiliating about it over this like, listen, and by the way, I'm an advocate of de affiliating if you don't like what the brand is doing for you. If you are doing as I did, I don't know about the CrossFit affiliate. Our plans were always to eventually affiliate. Because at some point, we wanted our brand to transcend what their brand was going to be if I wanted to maintain the affiliate, it was an option that we maybe would have considered, we would have been selling a fitness home of CrossFit like, right. But in the end, it just wasn't really in my plan to maintain that forever. And I think that if you end up frustrated by what they're putting out media wise, and maybe what the public impression is of CrossFit or maybe quality control, global National Quality Control about what's going on on the ground in these affiliate gyms. Maybe you think that that is something you're constantly having to overcome instead of reaping the benefits of if that is the case. Go ahead. Do you affiliate? I'm all about it. But over a price range price rises if you did not have enough or have a problem enough to compel you to bail before. Yeah, now this little thing comes like I just can't pretend that you're a serious person. If this bothers you that much, I just.

John Fairbanks 05:08

And what I love most too, is like the last D affiliation craze was like, based on morals.

Tyler 05:16

You know, I mean, some people are gonna dump this over, like 150 bucks. It's fun.

John Fairbanks 05:21

Now that's crazy, right? Like, it just is and it's very disingenuous to some of the shit that people are spouting off where it's like, it's a 50% increase of my operating costs. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

Tyler 05:33

What are you talking about? Isn't this one singular category, and most of you sell one membership since you have 90 percent of gyms 95% of what they're getting of what they're selling is one singular membership product. Like, yeah, if that's the game you're playing, just play that game plus one more. That's fine. I don't get it. Yeah,

John Fairbanks 05:55

that is starting to be a game where it is a piece. I'm not gonna get super preachy on this one, but it is,

Tyler 06:02

like I might.

John Fairbanks 06:05

Well, I'm just saying like coming back to the show, we always talk about where it's just like, it's, if you really are barely skating by, right, where it really is a difference maker, like, What the fuck, like, there is an element here, where if you're lacking, like $150 more additional per month is going to put you under, like, holy shit, you were this is a gift, it's a gift for you either to decide great, we can finally close, and I can go back to selling insurance. Or I could go back and sell cars or whatever. Because this is all you were hoping for is that this is your COVID. You're welcome. Everybody is giving you your next

Tyler 06:44

COVID an excuse. Now, let's cover two things with this. Oh, by the way, the other criteria that was added was that these affiliates, I don't know if it's the owners necessarily, or that one of your coaches on staff has to maintain a level two.

John Fairbanks 06:58

So what I've seen is that the affiliate owners are required to have the L

Tyler 07:01

two, okay. Now, does that suck? If you're like, what if you're just like, let's say the guy that owns the joints, and you're not even the coach that may be able to complicate that type of thing, right? If I want to be an owner, and then I do some sales, and I have someone else who I've paid to take the training and pay whatever I don't, I don't really care about that, like a specific outlier of the situation. But let's be honest, if a level two is required to be in, in, in your possession, in order for you to open the affiliate, it does make it a lot easier, or a lot more difficult for somebody to just decide to open an affiliate out of the blue, which in my opinion, this move the level two requirements. I mean, I think you can probably take them back to back by the way, I think you could go take a level one one weekend, find out you passed it, and then go take your level two, you know, whatever, right after that, I do think I think that's probably how that works. I only ever got my level one, by the way, and fucking opened my gym. Months later, like, isn't anything like that's, and that's probably too easy. And now, there's a lot of people who probably could have put a lot less effort into being good as a coach than I put into learning and staying ahead of the game education wise in the beginning. So because I knew that was going to be an issue of mine. So I tried to build a decent network of coaches and other people that I could trust. So it wasn't just my lower level of expertise that was getting shoved into the product that we were selling everybody. So you had to build a network and build some sort of education structure if you knew if I was required to be able to have a level to tell you what I had a lot more experience in CrossFit before I'd opened doors with that name over the building name above it. So the truth. Right, so in my opinion, this level two requirement. Not only is it probably the best decision that I think CrossFit has made from a quality control standpoint, it's what goes on in the fields. It is actually as far as I can recall, since I own my affiliate and open mind and 17 was might be the only decision that CrossFit has made to improve what goes on on the ground in their affiliates from a quality control standpoint. I don't think they've done fuck all to make sure that it's not just some schmuck teaching people to grip and rip high pay snatches and cleans and jerk clean and jerks with no accountability to any sort of education structure or background or decent programming beyond some weekend course. I just

John Fairbanks 09:25

and how fucking awesome is it that as soon as they start to just like it is the problem right? It's like if CrossFit has a brand if the idea is like no it has everything you just described a reputation of grip and rip bullshit like it's all that's all they keep. It's just like, the bright

Tyler 09:45

the things that are glaring, bad about CrossFit people flopping around doing kipping pull ups and terrible technique Olympic lifts being done for speed and just really ill advised like big stupid ship or workouts and nobody actually By buying into the variation of the types of exercise in both domains scales and type that, like people just think that CrossFit is like basically three to one go Metcon workouts, that's what it really, really, really means. When people view it without the context of an understanding of what it really is, a constantly varied, functional movement with a high intensity component, what's the most programmed workout that was always done by 5k? Run? Okay, there's supposed to be a lot of variation that is supposed to truly be general fitness. And I my opinion about why I was not interested in writing that brand named into the fucking rocks, was because the sport of CrossFit is what was driving the brand recognition. And that made people think, including clients coming in off the street, that what they need to be doing is coming in and doing a bunch of snatches and cleaning jerks for time and shit. And it's like, no, no, no, no, I want you to have truly general fitness here. This is, I believe, that methodology, constant varied functional movement with high intensity components done, where you're scaling everything down with practical, practical programming, where it's not just 20 minute wads. Sometimes we're doing strength today. You know what I mean? Sometimes we're going to do some conditioning stuff, sometimes we're going to do indoors, sometimes we're going to get the sizzle that everybody wants. But that it's that's what they mean by variation, not just throwing fucking shit at the wall or doing hero workouts all the time. And I saw the execution having been into more CrossFit affiliates than most of you that listen, for sure, and more countries and more affiliates, and most of you here listening, I see it done really, really fucking poorly. And done just in this, this way, where somebody went to one CrossFit class and goes, this is the thing, I'm going to do more than this. And it's all that so that is what people thought it was. And if that's the case, I'm all about D affiliating if you're tired of running uphill. And that's also why I'm okay with people thinking CrossFit sucks. I think that CrossFit as itself is great. I really do not do the business, but the training methodology, as it is, was originally written, how it is executed on the ground in these affiliates. I would say we're lucky if half of them don't do it as a dogshit job for anyone who knows anything about exercise. So this is why CrossFit doesn't work, it's stupid, it's just going to make you so it's like you can get very fit and get a very good physique doing things the right way. But many people don't. And I it makes me fucking crazy. But this level two requirement, in my opinion, might require some of these people to actually have a decent understanding of the thing they're trying to represent.

John Fairbanks 12:36

Everything you just described, HQ goes, you know what affiliate owners, we've heard you, you guys have made these complaints. These have been problems with the brands, you know, what we've heard you loud and clear, we're gonna make sure that we can do some quality control and raise the bar of excellence. And so this what we're gonna do, and everyone goes, Fuck you guys, man. Like,

Tyler 12:58

you don't want some guy who came to your class who just doesn't like your programming and wishes he could do it more badass or whatever. Just going in and taking a $1,000 weekend course, right and one check to HQ and popping up an affiliate on your blog. Right. And that will then really dilute your brand in your market. Because well, that's CrossFit. That's CrossFit who can suffer because to the average consumer, they don't understand how it works. I'll get my camera back rolling here, John. But I think the thing that I think is really important, though, is that the tantrum that's going to be held about over that, like anyone who has a problem with that, good riddance, I think, I think what's great for HQ to have those people no longer representing their brand, frankly, for 50% increase in price. What does that mean, so let's say they scrape? What would that be? Let's say they scrape off 25% of the affiliates and don't continue. You

John Fairbanks 13:53

Now, let's just use our numbers. States. Right, right. So like, just in the States, I think there's 4500 affiliates in the United States. So right, if you think about that, like if you lose 25%? Is that what you said? So now you're left with like 3300 3400 affiliates left, like the idea that you could lose. And the reason why you're losing them is that they don't want to get their L to write or they don't want to be able to handle that price increase. Like you said, it's for sure if you lose 25% And they raise prices by 50%. Like this has been normal math that we all do within the gym owner community. Yeah, this is also one of my bigger complaints about people being like, well, this is now you know, it's clear that the business of CrossFit is in a manage to decline. It's like, Bitch, not because of this, like we can all say that they've been in a managed decline for a number of years for a laundry list of reasons that we absolutely have gone over on this podcast in previous episodes. Can you imagine when you're like, you know what, we haven't done a price increase on our members for so long, whatever it is, we're going to raise prices a little bit. We know what we have to do. We know we're going to make some people upset. But at the end of the day, we got to trim the fat. And if somebody goes, Oh, Wolf, fucking you guys are just raising your prices, because you're in a managed business declined and be like, wait, what? Yeah, like, that's not what that is.

Tyler 15:25

Yeah. So I think that this opens the door for I have been wrong, by the way in the past in actually hoping for better from HQ. Yeah. And the larger the community as a whole, I have thought that there's some opportunities for them to turn some corners. And they had failed to, over the course of a lot of years due to factors I think the organization has itself up in front of, maybe just not as big as people actually think it is. I think what goes on in the ground is bigger than I think what goes on at the top. So I just think that there's a fundamental disconnect between a very good, very valuable, solid training methodology that now gets turned into just classes. It's his classes. And it makes me really frustrated because you, by the way, think this through guys, what is the methodology? Constant varied functionally with done at a high intensity? When I hear this, it feels like I'm taking the high road and pitching it to people who are quitting or do have a problem with this, and I kind of am. But I'm gonna take a moment. There are other people taking the same stance as I am that are like, whose point I disagree with who say, Well, if you're going to use the training methodology, then you better pay. No. First off, that is the dumbest thing. It is the dumbest thing. They don't own the training methodology. And I think you need to make that very clear. And I think this is the thing that people don't get, because there are some CrossFit fuckin jock writers that are really fucking irritating when they bring this up. Within just what you do. The training methodology is like, No, I can open a powerlifting gym. And I don't have to pay money into the powerlifting gods, because nobody invented squatting, benching, and deadlifting. And how I'm going to train people to get good at that are the words, variation, functional movement, high intensity, my interpretation of that can be different than somebody else's, obviously, because I've seen really bad versions of that executed in CrossFit affiliates. Really bad, okay? They do not own the methodology, they own the brand name, and you're buying into the brand name, and then you're able to use their resources and their pathways to educate your coaches. That's kind of fucking it. That's all they give you. Okay, but that is it. I can coach people in classes, doing what I did the same things that you did if you were a CrossFit affiliate, and you rebrand as so and so fitness instead of so and so CrossFit. You can do the exact same thing on the ground, and you don't need to think twice. About whether or not that's right or wrong. Anyone who says otherwise, that is a fucking idiot. So don't listen to those people. That's some dumb ass shit. Those people do not have your own cheeseburgers, John, you gotta pay McDonald's the money they own? No, it's just not how this works. Okay, there's plenty of cheeseburgers out there, you guys are selling cheeseburgers under whatever other fucking name it does not they do not own the methodology, the methodology is not even really all that original. Okay, the execution of it, where it is now done in group classes, is not , by the way, a part of the methodology. understand is that none of it was constantly varied functional movement at a high intensity done in classes of 10 to 15. People.

John Fairbanks 18:36


Tyler 18:37

Fuck no, I always assumed it you know, your manager. None of it says group classes in it, by the way, but why would you? Why would that be what it really is? Now, that's where a community aspect comes in, people work out together. But by the way your workouts shouldn't all be now here's a moment where we're three to one going, no ship, that is bad fitness. If everything is like that. It's mad training. At some point, everybody should be working on the strength stuff that we're doing today, we're going to warm up to the things you're going to do. It's not all and now we get our sizzle. Because at that point, just go do body pump at the fucking YMCA, or go do some hit classes at your local yoga studio with a bunch of people who never get fitter, stronger. And while they just slowly lose muscle and gradually decline in their cardiovascular health, who gives a shit? I just don't own this and it's not classes. And by the way, that's the most important thing that I would like to see. The affiliates understand that you can coach somebody using the fundamental principles of CrossFit and one on one? Sure, I hope so. Is it still CrossFit? Yes, it is. Yeah. So this is where the people think it's classes and Sicily classes and gripping and ripping some stuff that by the way, if when I say those things, that's that's, I promise you 90% of the members that are in some of these bad gyms that are doing stuff poorly. That's what they think as well. And I know this because I've taught these coaches, I've coached these coaches, we, John, John, you and I worked together, we have built information structures for seminars that were used as their canvas Crossroads continuing education stuff. That's right. So we participated in all of this education, we met these people, we saw their initial impressions, we saw some of the resistance from them, and then we saw the change, when they actually got a reasonable understanding of how fucking training should work and how training of the right way doesn't mean abandoning the function, the guiding principles across it, which are effective, especially for the general population. If I'm trying to be a bodybuilder, John, I am not going to do that, that style of training necessarily, but if I may be in like a bit of a gap in my training in between seasons, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna lift some strength one day, I'm gonna go and I'm doing a little bodybuilding stuff the other day, I'm gonna do some cardio one day, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna go do some long distance running another day. Like that is essentially what pretty decent fuckin CrossFit programming should kind of kind of look like it's not 17 minute AMRAP it's just a stupid long list of exercises that are just going to fuck up your shoulders. And so that thing, don't let anybody tell you that they own that methodology. They don't let you train people however you want. I can train people to be strong men. I don't need to send a check to fucking World's Strongest Man. It's that I can use the word strong man even because there's no brand, but your gym is how you train people. No matter what anyone says. Nobody owns that at all. I can train people using peloton bikes if I want to, and I don't have to pay peloton for anything beyond the fucking bikes.

John Fairbanks 21:36

Now, can we talk about another complaint? So I've seen this be popular. CrossFit Pinkie promised us Tyler Pinky promised us with no takes back that they were never gonna raise their affiliate fee.

Tyler 21:50

Well, shucks welcome to Reality, guys. I don't know what to tell you. It's not real either. Yeah,

John Fairbanks 21:54

like what the fuck guys? Like think about like, could you imagine it, Donald's

Tyler 21:59

had a $1 menu, I don't get to hold them to that. And the dollar menu is no more. And for those of you the people, by the way, if you were opened at the $500 a year affiliate rate, and now you're mad because it's kind of nearly 10x, right? Like, if you've been open since then. And you don't have an extra fucking three and a half grand, you're not making an extra three and a half grand a year. Yeah, to cover something like this. Like, you fucking suck so much. Like, I don't know what to tell you. You're just you've proven to be so bad at making money at this thing for this long, then just I don't just shut down I guess or Yeah, tell them to go fuck themselves. And then you put a new sign up and you do all the new branding stuff. And, and I'm okay. By the way, there's a decision that all affiliates need to make: is the value or detriment? Right? The value positive, so positive or negative value of the brand? As far as its perception in my community? Is that worth it when compared to building my own brand is my own brand as so and so fitness versus CrossFit? So and so? Is that? Is having that worth more to me? Is that worth more to my members? Is that more attractive to people who are looking to get fit? Do I have to constantly convince people that no, we don't just force people to do all these crazy lifts that you don't really want to do or care to do and if if you don't want to be doing muscle ups and gymnastics, don't worry, we have stuff, we substitute a lot of the stuff so you're making sure you're finding a safe, effective exercise that's comfortable for you, that's going to keep you from getting hurt, it's gonna make sure you're getting results to like the all of that stuff you can do. But if I spent so much time in a small community where CrossFit really was only known as its global perception, especially during peak CrossFit Games, coverage, which great cool people doing cool stuff, real fit stuff, but if you're only trying to attract fit people who are comfortable like that, like it's gonna it's tough. It's a tough sell here because there's not a ton of them. And if I'm trying to make an impact in my community, I want those people to be an example of what's possible. But I still need regular people to feel comfortable taking that first step. And I spend too much time diffusing now it's not this not It's not this. Yep, I promise it's not this no, you heard everyone gets hurt often it's not this versus if I just say, you know, it's just Tyler's gym, Tyler's fitness center here. Right? And here's what I do. I do have some classes and I do some personal training. And then all of a sudden now people are just worried about themselves and their fitness and not conforming to some larger brand and whatever their preconceived notions are about it. It's a lot to overcome. That is the decision you should make now if HQ raising their prices hurts your little feelings. Go for it. Listen, here's the deal. But as I'm stubborn bordering on obstinate John, you know this right and a lot of issues I do. It's one of your most endearing qualities. Yeah, this is the one thing that people, especially my wife, like the most, the thing that people liked the most about me. The least to be honest with you, but so do that. I'm telling you this I understand your urge to go fuck you. By the way, I'm with you if you want to go ahead and do it. If anything that's the right move, go for it right? Yeah, but but then just say because it's because you're mad and you ain't playing their shit anymore like it's one more thing and you're like nah fuck it I've I've had it up to here with their bullshit Am I reward them financially for this bullshit I'm with my rent from a place John here and I got to we got to sign up in our building where we are parking a parking lot so we a lot of snow in this part of the country. And we signed up a little to say hey, just so you know Winter Is coming. We'll give you usually 30 minutes notice via text message when your vehicles need to be out of the parking lot so that we can plow the snow if we get snow which is fine. They've done that before. Usually the problem is is John would have been working from the middle of thing or even worse, I'm out of time. Right Right, right. Also from the middle some shade 30 minutes, kind of go fuck yourself, right? We're podcasting podcasting in the middle of a thing like you don't get to give me 30 minutes notice and I got to rush and get a car out it's also by the way snowed in. Right now. One of the other stipulations with this is now starting this year, if your vehicle is not moving, they won't just plow around it. They're gonna have Tow Truck tow your vehicle at your expense and if there's any damage to your vehicle, you're gonna have to You're responsible for it as well. And that's that's one thing by the way I will not be going out and shoveling my bends out of the fucking parking lot when there's two or three feet of snow you're gonna plow the places where my car is not right and then I will get myself to that space and then we will dive I will drive out of this if my car is towed at my expense even once I will move out of this fucking apartment within 30 days. I totally you can consider the moment I get charged for that you can consider that my 30 days notice and you can go fuck yourself. Don't touch my fucking car. Do not touch my fucking car. I'll move my entire family in the middle of fucking winter over a $60 toe thing in principle so I need you guys to trust what we appreciate I am as stubborn and that I am willing to die on some really ridiculous hills and I'm telling you that it takes one though no one and I know you're just being obstinate and childish about this issue unless you want out and if you want out from under the affiliate you want out from under the brand and this is your side that but then it's not about this it's just about timing then because you were already close and now I'm gonna spend extra money on something that I'm already about to bounce on so like but call it what it is and don't make a stink about it either. Like there's plenty of gyms of the affiliated, plenty of gyms of the affiliated by brand and still kept the affiliate affiliate if that makes sense right to pay for the affiliate fee. But they don't make CrossFit the centerpiece of their brand. Yeah, you still are using the information structure training cut structure, attractiveness of the brand letting your athletes use the to the CrossFit open every year you know I mean some of that stuff is that's the fun stuff right and so but I just don't think it's that important for you guys out there to like this price increase if it's important to you that's absolutely your fault, not theirs. Now the one thing I fucking utilities ago, but at this year, oh, as a whole, like everything goes up like I don't know insurance,

John Fairbanks 28:11

like property value, like all that shit. Like we just got our property value reassessment to let me know well, you put up a fence. So now we get to charge you more taxes.

Tyler 28:22

Great dollars more.

John Fairbanks 28:23

Awesome. There's another piece too. And you call this out where you're like you've been wrong before but you hope that crosses does right? This is the one thing in the back of your mind. It's if LLC is promising to add more value to affiliates, so that you all can build a strong and sustainable business per CEO, the dawn. It's okay. However, long crosswords have been in existence. They ever did any of those things well dealt with like the average gym. Like I've seen so many different statistics, but like the idea that any moment like in the CrossFit journey of you being a gym owner, and it's not 1957 If the average gym owner for a CrossFit gym affiliate owner, they were said like we had made per year like 36 to $40,000 a year. Like what the fuck? Like okay,

Tyler 29:26

guys, you're the CEO of like, it

John Fairbanks 29:29

was a flop Right? Like it's so that's where, like, for me, it's like okay, very clearly, that's not what they do. Correct. And guess what an additional $125 to $150 a month is not now all of a sudden because guess what, when the affiliate, that payment went from $500 to $3,000. Did they improve their ability to help you all build a sustainable business?

Tyler 29:57

Every other move they make is to charge for Right, we're gonna offer level one. So we're offered level two. So we're going to put out seminars, and we're gonna do continuing education courses and things I think they've done under the guise of quality control is still pay to play all the way across the board. So it's not like they're doing it. And then raising some other price, it's like here is this product now you must still must pay. So they're getting you coming and going. But this isn't unlike anything else. It's just not. And one of the one of the more interesting things that I had seen, this was Stuart Brower had done it, called a couple guys in and talked about this as well. But like that, you know, CrossFit is responsible for getting your leads. Really not, that they're really responsible for that's it, what you're using that name, how you get your leads coming in the door, and who they are. What their impression is, of your brand is your brand's job, kind of right? But like just having it there, this is why it was too easy for these CrossFit affiliates. I say very specifically, the ones that are grandfathered in. Okay, you've had it, you've rolled out the easiest uptick and the easiest like upswell the rising tide. In all fitness. In my opinion, I haven't seen a rise in fitness like you did in CrossFit from 2010 to 2016, and 17. Are sure 12 to 17. Like just madness, right? It was very easy. If the word was out, man, the word was out, all you needed was to get the right to use the name, and you'd get some fucking, it would work that way. But it was just too easy for you guys back then. And that's why a lot of these affiliates are just stuck. Or they're just stuck in this. So if what you choose doesn't happen, people don't just show up to look in place anymore, or don't get it. I blame them. It's simple. No, you've been neglecting this part of the game, you've been assuming it was taken care of by someone who's not taking care of that at all. Not at all. John, we can, we can open up equipment and we can spend some money in open Anytime Fitness, we could open Snap Fitness, you could open LA Fitness, you can do anything, it's just going to take off fuckload of money, by the way, you're not going to bring in still not gonna bring in leads. So my job as a business, to invest in advertising and whatever to bring in leads. But the difference is that franchises do agree to put money towards those leads. That's why this is not that there is some sort of franchise, there's not a franchise and that's what they don't get. Correct. They don't get it's the difference between an affiliate of franchises, you don't get much. And I think you're kind of getting more than you deserve. What to say, I just don't know what to say. I would cross it to be better served if it was a franchise.

John Fairbanks 32:38

It would totally take it would be wildly different. Like you all pitch up again, we

Tyler 32:43

talked about this from their people, there's no way you can turn this back. There's no way it could be walked back. But like the training by the way, I think it would be wrong because I do believe in the variation. Because you look at what even happened with CrossFit continuing education courses. There became a way now of teaching CrossFit because CrossFit football ended up being performance. That's right. But by the way, it's not all it's not all corny or terrible stuff. Some of this was like how do we use these principles? Right, we're using here and apply them for sports performance, because the average dumbass who just takes a level one and opens a CrossFit affiliate thinks if I'm going to do offseason sports performance for kids, I'm just going to have them do a kid centric CrossFit class with a warm up and then a Metcon and timer and three to one go and techno music and off we go. That's because in most of these fucking places, John it's taking a

John Fairbanks 33:33

a lot and because I have kids and because kids training is where I definitely am the most comfortable. I've been in a lot of different CrossFit gyms that are doing kids training and what you've just described is all

Tyler 33:45

Yeah, and so that's an offseason sports performance is like this is this is this is why there are issues like a high school one not wanting their kids to go train at a CrossFit gym. So I need them flinging around in your fucking pull up bars, I need them squatting. I need them doing some heavy carries and even some dynamic stuff. I need them to sprint and I need them to just generally build some size. And it looks like the programming you're doing is designed to make people small. Hobbit people do and habit things is what I always do. I always joked about it but when I would coach kids for offseason stuff whose parents structure I was coaching the kids, I was not just conforming them into a thing, which meant we're doing a strength program. I'm just working with you. In my CrossFit affiliate. It's not all classes and sizzle. And I don't understand how many CrossFit affiliate owners never got that through their fucking head at all. And now they have to know they've started. They've slowly come to that realization. They're like, No, I'm gonna have a specialty class. It's like, you know, you can just coach people for the things that they want to do. You can just do that. In a CrossFit affiliate. CrossFit doesn't mean setting a timer and hitting some techno music and letting it roll. It just doesn't. And

John Fairbanks 34:54

It's so much more fun too. Because when you talk about like we say just in this for another minute, it's The teens classes, the mistake that I've seen owners do that we've literally, you and I have spoken to them, which the error is, we'll know the teens class is bridging a gap. So when they age out, you now have a very capable population of teens that are now doing those meet cons and workouts as adults. What are we talking about? Like this isn't, this isn't like having like, you teach the flag football team, the same plays as the high school are using because then they can go to college, but like, it's guys, this is this is fitness, this is different. This is not a sport, this is not the idea where you want your team's doing the exact same shit. Like the idea that you have a 15 year old onboarding. Correct. And that's what the error is. And that definitely became

Tyler 35:45

so look at what happened there became CrossFit powerlifting. There's all these little other certs that you could get. And you could take what I want everybody to know that that's the direction that I actually think the CrossFit affiliates should have gone to, which is be a specialist in all these things, and have your programming be kind of about a lot of this stuff. And you don't have to always be branching up and doing it all in this silly class structure that 80% of gyms do the same fun class structure, there's just one time it was real bad, the YMCA would run it, and they just hired dumb Fox to come in and coach and they would they were doing at some point, I think there was like two to three like, Girl Like hero workouts just being done a week, they're just grabbing those, that's what their programming was, right? You know what that work is? It's hard. That's a waste of your fucking time. It's hard, but it's just, it's just work. And so that type of shit was going on. And nobody was learning anything about actually training people. So then it trashed the business's ability to actually help people who had any sort of specific goal. Move the goalposts knowing what you really need to worry about. Nobody came in going, I want to worry about work on my mobility for my overhead squat. No, but we're going to know what geez, look at look at, we did a little squat test. And you can't do this, I learned this on my level one. And so we're gonna have to troubleshoot this and all your work is going to be done with a PVC pipe, so you're not getting any real work in for the longest amount of time. And that sucks. It just became a bad product, when there were just uninformed people doing it in a really stupid way who were married to a methodology that they didn't understand. And that's the worst part. They just don't really understand what the methodology is supposed to be. And it became functional fitness classes. And functional, I'd argue with that. My the, by the way, the only gripe that I would have in the base CrossFit methodology is the foundational movements I think it's silly to have like a sumo deadlift high pole, like someone was just fucking dumb. Like if, if you'd go through and just like get some decent movement patterns, right go squat press hinge stuff, and then the rest can be fucking kind of open to open to interpretation. And let's just go with understand that constant variation and functional movement, there's a broad category and I don't see anything not functional about bicep curls. I don't see anything not functional about a bench press. I just don't think you need to specialize in any of those things. But like, other than that specific thing, the whatever the nine foundational movements like, like those things being the by the way, every gym does more than those nine things. Great. And that's why I gave it a little grace right there just some benchmarks in there that maybe if you're able to do a snatch that's a that is a sign of increased strength, explosiveness and mobility wonderful, but know that your grandmother doesn't ever need to aspire to that necessarily. Yeah. And that understanding when people go like hey, let's not be fucking dogmatic about this you're all good. So listen out there if you want to do affiliate right now fucking do it. I guess I don't know what to tell you. I'm not telling you not to do it. I'm just telling you. Like this is your fault. At this point, if it's if it's due to the hardship that this price increase is causing you it is your fault not theirs for not being resilient enough at this point. If it's if this is the last straw that broke the camel's back, then yeah, by the way, fuck them fuck them because they're gonna send you a fucking Christmas card that nobody even signs dude. I'm telling you that's I got we got Chris we get Christmas cards from nobody signs them it's just a Christmas card from HQ printed and like not a not a hand thing on it like typed out like nobody touched it nobody said phone call. There were no resources for affiliates to help with your business. Your marketing, your coaching, certainly none of it. It's I'm all about that if you've had enough up to here with all this shit, totally, totally. But then you should have aspired to build your own brand at that point. Anyways, that's my thing. This should have been something where you're not even mad about this. You should have want your own brand have more than you want their stuff if this is the issue

John Fairbanks 39:50

and you're gonna have to take action either way. Yeah, so like it's and that's where again, it's like you fuck them or don't within Do something. Do something about it like let it'd be a catalyst that does push you to do a thing where it's don'ts for the love of God don't agree and stay and be like, Oh, great, they're definitely going to roll shit out that's going to help us be able to make up this difference. It's like, no, they're not. So use it as a jumping off point to be like, how can I then? Do better with my marketing do better with these pieces? Because you really can, you really should be taking some fucking ownership, because it ain't gonna fall HQ, ever?

Tyler 40:28

No, you know, I do like the level two requirement. I do think that having somebody having to have level two in the building now is going to be interesting. I hope that it levels up some understanding of the methodology as a whole. I do really, really like the CrossFit education staff. We've worked with some directly. I've attended the courses, I've had some correspondence with a lot of people that have been on level one and level two and some specialty course stuff over the years. And I think they are smart. And I, when I attended any of those things, I never had any disagreements with any of the ways that they taught any of the movements. Truthfully, everything is pretty sound stuff, they are very good communicators, those people are worth emulating from a coaching standpoint. But I think it's going to be valuable that somebody in the gym doesn't have anyone with a level two, it's probably going to be better for your gym than somebody else. That's all. Or if you really don't want to then definitely drop the brand. But I think that hopefully the best thing, the best thing that could happen to CrossFit honestly, would be if the 30% of the worst coaches and worst affiliates were rebranded as something else, for sure. And ended it though not diluted. And in my opinion, one of the best things that can happen for CrossFit as a whole is for people to really not be married to the methodology as their understanding was imprinted on them as it was imprinted into them within the whatever the first few gyms that they were in like to really think of the methodology and how it works for people at general population and be a bit free thinking and how that can be executed in a class in one on one personal training because functional movement variation and high intensity are just tools. They're tools that can be used when you're coaching people. Why does it have to be in a class all the time? Are those principles not valuable? In other ways? So keep that in mind that you're not. It's not that you're not, you're not doing CrossFit if you're doing personal training. If you really are a CrossFit guy or whatever, I don't know or don't I don't fucking care that's the end of this I've ranted enough about this I think I think we covered a lot of good ground here so I hope I hope you understand what we're trying to get out here so be about her Don't be about it. Choose a hill to die on. Touch my bends. I'm a fucking goddamn apartment so fast though. I clean no carpets either. Thanks a lot for listening. Everybody. Follow John at J banks FL follow the show at J Morris podcast. Follow me at Tyler effing stone. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next week.

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