Building A Nutrition Program That WORKS - A Case Study

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Tyler 00:00

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome gym owners podcast. I'm your host Tyler Stone over there's John Fairbanks. Morning, John. Good morning, guys. Today we're gonna talk about nutrition coaching, nutrition plans, nutrition, something somebody, everybody needs help one way or another, if you're in the fitness business, you probably need to be addressing people's food. We've talked about this over and over and over and over again. It has continued to grow, in my opinion, to be the most important issue for all of us fitness professionals. Now, if you're at the gym, and you're just doing cycling classes and stuff, that's wonderful. But like for your people that are coming there to lose weight, like, Do you have a resource, at least you can refer them to, for Christ's sake, for people that are coming to you like is, is somehow fixing people's dietary situation, is that a part of what goes on in your operation or not? If it's not, you're leaving a lot of clients' success on the table. First and foremost, and that's a big red flag for us. Because every time I go to a gym, I just see a lot of potential to like, serve the clients better and give them a better chance of succeeding. If I look at your gym, the services you offer. And I see a lot of those gaps. I usually know that a business doesn't give a fuck about their people. I also know that over the long term, it's gonna be really hard pressed to have a lot of like really high quality, testimonials success stories before and after, hey, if you're not in the business, this transfer transformations are getting people in great shape from poor shape or from in Okay, shape from awful shape. Fine, there's plenty of space in the fitness industry for people to stay fit. That's totally fine. But that's not what we're about. That's not the revolution here, that the gym owners revolution here is all about. So if you want to get on tomorrow's revolution, go to gym owners revolution.com. Because to get on the gym owners revolution Facebook group, the link is in the show notes. John, we talked to a lot of gym owners, a lot of coaches, a lot of personal trainers about things like, what are you offering for nutrition services? What are you? What are you doing when somebody comes in to say, hey, I want to lose 50 pounds? I gotta lose 30 pounds? Can I hire you as a personal trainer? Can I join your gym and join your classes? Can I? Whatever? What are you really offering them that's going to help get them there? And if it's just your classes, if it is your gym stuff, I think I think that sucks. I just think you as a coach should know that that's not even half of it. Right? It is fundamentally maybe half of the equation, right? The calories that you are using up in your day, but let's be real the gym doesn't represent even a third of the calories that someone has consumed or it is somebody's body that is utilizing in a day. Probably more like an eighth, maybe a 10th it's just not that much. We don't you nobody's working that hard in the gym, none of your people are not enough to where they can just completely disregard their nutrition and not be leaving a ton of progress on the table. Someone who bust their ass in the gym is busting their ass and eating like shit. And they're making some progress. Dude, they'd be killing it. If they had their food shit dialed in, they'd be killing it if they were at least dialing in their nutrition in some sort of a process, right? It doesn't have to be perfect from day one. But if it stays shit, and is shit in the end, how equipped are they at the end of this game to win? How equipped are they at the end of this game? Even if they lose 30 pounds by just brute force and effort and two days and conditioning and all this shit like all of this stuff? And they lose more weight than what? They have to keep that physical output up forever? Because you never fucking taught them anything. Laying



John Fairbanks 03:34

that's also not that's not reality for most people, no, most people are not going to be able to even produce that level of physical output. And as professionals, we have to know that that is the reality that people aren't going to be able to do that. And if they're not able to do that, but you will allow someone to continue to live in that psychosis, where they believe that they come on, we all know you can't outwork a bad diet. We all know that to be true. But yet, there's so many folks that certainly we've interacted with, and that we see that appear to almost be keeping the nutrition conversation at an arm's length. They don't even want to have it because it might rock the boat. And they're like, Well, I just didn't get them here. Like I didn't really get them to work out, getting to feel like there's so many elements where it's like we're getting it backwards and you think you're helping somebody by getting them started in the gym, where you're actually confusing what they want most. You're telling them that your group class, your personal training, whatever it is, that's going to give them what they're after what they're ultimately after. And there is a point, right where if you're not upfront about it from the very beginning, it's going to feel like it can't feel anything different than just a bait and switch.



Tyler 04:50

It's not gonna get them what they think they're gonna get. You're gonna get work and there's health . It is a step forward. Listen, I have a friend you know too. I have a friend who a very A long time ago was in the market for a used car. The guy wanted a pretty good price. It tells me it's just kind of cool. John, this thing was a legitimate purple PT Cruiser. And he thought it was like, like, it was like, oh, it's kind of cool. And it's like, so he thought that this would be some like, eccentric, hip, hip hip thing. And it's like, bro, you're drunk, you're driving a fucking, like an absolute, the dumbest Dodge Neon that's ever existed is basically what you're driving. Tracy, listen, if somebody convinced you that this was going to be anything other than fucking really stupid, you got to do it, you just got to know that car works fine and got it from A to B. But just remember to make it look cool by doing it. He was a bit confused that this might be a cool situation to get into. And then he got to spend the next eight years just being laughed at every time we went anywhere. So don't be that guy. There'll be when people come in, don't be like, Yeah, dude, you get in, you start working with me, we're gonna start working out three days a week, and you're gonna get fucking jacked. I'm sorry, you're not that good of a coach to just do that. Now, unless, you know, unless your workouts are so good. You can simply inspire them to do better outside the gym. But that's it. That is what nutrition coaching is. And this is the rehab. We talk to coaches, gym owners, people start worrying about liability and state to state and all stuff. Well, I'm not a dietician, or I'm not a nutritionist, I can't be given nutrition advice. And the thing I say when I hear a coach, tell me a coach or gym or say I can't be given nutrition advice. I'm not a nutritionist, all I hear in my brain has me screaming at them saying don't be such a fucking coward. Like, I don't just stop. I don't know what to say, Okay, fine. Yeah, I don't want to help. I just stop that, I guess I guess just don't help anybody. Because there's no fucking way that you're going to get the same results if you do not address this issue. Because you know, especially if you're dealing with people that are going overweight population, the overweight people they come in they they're willing to spend 1000s of dollars to not have to address what they put into their bodies on a daily basis. Yep. You know, they will, I've seen people spend many thumbs 10,000, nearly 1000 bucks a month or so on personal training, basically, so they don't have to address what they're putting in their body. I've seen people who are training with personal trainers three times a week, training on their own and in addition to having not gotten much progress over the course of the year. And then hop on olympic Guess what, four months and ozempic down a lot of weight. Because the reality is no matter where you are, there you go. And that is the reality for someone who's overweight, the reality for someone who needs to lose weight. And when they're coming into your gym, they're wanting a solution. You're selling like the hardest, like literally the hardest solution possible. If you're like, we're just gonna fucking work this off in the gym. I'm gonna fucking kill you. You're gonna burn so many calories. It's gonna fucking rule. And it's like, Man, that is so much harder than taking like three less bites a day. So,



John Fairbanks 08:04

but people don't know that because that doesn't it isn't common. It isn't common sense and it should be common sense. But it isn't. Because when people look good. Now, this wasn't me. This wasn't my lived experience. When I was a younger kid, because when I was younger I was a big fat kid. So I don't harken back to back then when I was in high school, or when I was younger, and I looked good, quote, unquote, I wasn't a fat kid. I hadn't let myself go because age is a bitch. But most people that is their lived experience. They were once fit. So what they do is they think, Well, what was I doing? Back when I actually wasn't totally depressed with the way I look. And they remember, while I was on sports teams, I was working out, I was active, I was doing all these things. So there is an incorrect correlation to I will be healthier if I can get into the gym, and I can start working out because it's kind of like that rising tide lifts all boats, which usually I'm all about. The problem is, is that as we all know, when it comes to weight loss and comes to dieting, and comes all these things, especially once we're talking to somebody over 30 Once they are over 30 over 35 Those people now have such an unhealthy relationship either with their job with their family, their spouse, their kids, their whatever their life in general, that we're not just talking about trying to get them back to where they once were because now they have a mortgage they have debt they have whatever that is causing way too much drinking, which is causing anger issues which is causing replacing sugar or food or whatever, to then fill that void or that gap. So you know you're talking all of these emotional and psychological People issues, to where they don't want to open that door in their brain. So like you said they will spend forever. And you've literally had guys tell you this dialer where hundreds



Tyler 10:12

of pounds of weight to lose, tell me, I don't want to lose weight, I just want to get strong. I just want to either you don't even list you're not even anything like this is, is and this is an important thing. I think for coaches to know, if you can't get somebody to lose 20 pounds, without them starting to exercise, you're going to be much less successful, doing it at exercise only. So this is like, in my opinion, being able to understand a dietary process for weight loss, it doesn't mean though, the perfect calorie dialed and we'll get into what this process should be at least the one that the ones that I've used. So this is like we'll have a good example for you guys. Like if you can't walk somebody through what this day is going to be to understand what the psychology is going to be, what behaviors you need to change, what they can be like kind of in a range, that can't be too strict. If you can't walk somebody through that and get somebody who's 350 pounds, if you can't get them to get down to 330. Without exercising, getting them in the gym is going to be a waste of their money, your time, probably a lot of wear and tear on their ass, because it's just really going to be rough on him. And it's going to be so slow. And let's be real, assuming you're good at both of those things. Now, all you're doing is like hitting the turbo on this progress. So gym owners, coaches, personal trainers who know neglect to address this issue. You're burying your head in the sand just like your weight loss client is when they never weigh themselves, when they never pay attention to what they eat when they guys know they need to lose weight and then will literally drive through fast food five days a week. It's denial. So if you're not doing this, if you are not, at least by the way, if you're not I'm not calling you out completely I do this all. But if you're not, if you're not thinking about doing this, you better think about doing this. We do a lot of thought exercises on the show. What would six weeks look like? What should it look like and not the perfect six week diet? Not the perfect six week intake, you are not coaching nutrition. You are not a nutrition coach. You coach people, right? You fucking assholes. And so many people want to get in there and I don't coach science, I don't coach carbohydrates. I don't coach fats and macros. I coach if god damn human beings is a process that these people need to go through. So that's the process you need to understand. It's not lower than this if you get all these stupid arguments. It's not keto versus this, it's not that it resists, there is a human being sitting in front of you in their life that creates an ecosystem, their behaviors or habits to friends, their relationships, all the stuff, and the outcomes that they're going to have. Nutritionally, your body is going to look like the ecosystem it's been living in. For the last however many years you're gonna look like the you're gonna get the results that you fucking deserve kind of your art you are, what you eat, you are what you do, you are what you think you are, who you spend it, you're all of those things collectively. So it's, something's off. It's all fucked. And so this is why when we go in, and we that whole ecosystem, we come in, and we think as coaches that when someone comes in and says, I want to lose weight, you don't tell them that you're only actually addressing one of those parts of that ecosystem, are you like, yeah, we'll just move this one fucking variable around, we'll just have you start exercising more. What's worse is some of these people have been gaining weight. It's the biggest trick, I've seen the toughest realization for people, if you've been gaining a pound every couple months or something like this for a while, you've been eating in a surplus, right? So I'd like to tell people like we just got to shave a few 100 calories a day out of what you're putting in, and you'll be losing a pound a week. But for some people, if I shave that much down, they feel like they're eating less, but eating less isn't going to make them lose weight, it's going to get them to maintenance, that's the worst part, someone who's trending upward. You make them change habits where they think they're winning, but they're not. They've only stopped losing as fast. Alright, and then they got to take an even bigger one so people don't even understand how far they actually need to go. And you're allowing them to be diluted by it. But I truly believe because I started this way that just like your gym owners are doing, a lot of you guys do it as someone can come in, and they can start exercising and they can get inspired to be more healthy. And from that they will find their way to healthier, eating healthier habits, better sleep, all this stuff. But how are they supposed to learn that and if you're the person they trust, what a wasted opportunity to actually help. Because I promise people are more coachable when they're coached by people. They trust the truth. So you're just going to turn them loose on the internet. You're going to take somebody who's come in and maybe really got some good habits in place now showing up to the gym. They work really hard. They made a little bit of progress. And now they have to go to Google to figure out what they should be eating. And it's all done. Go through this thing from A person's perspective from that person's perspective. If you don't know, let me give you a perfect little example. We as people, coaches, trainers will say things like, I need you to eat whatever, like 50 grams of protein three times a day, right? Maybe the last one can be 80, or something like that. People don't understand that. That means grams of like, at the end. This doesn't mean take a piece of steak, weigh it at 50 grams and eat it. Like that fundamental thing, like how many grams of protein? It's like all just weighing my meat, no, like 50 grams of steak might be four ounces of protein or whatever I eat. Some people don't even understand that when we're talking about dietary math. They were talking way over everybody's head completely. And so what I do is let's get into some stuff, we burned 15 minutes. Go ahead?



John Fairbanks 15:52

Well, I think also, it's starting to identify, because I think it's reasonable to talk because what we're about to talk about is been shaved down and perfected, and specifically directed at a very particular audience. Yes. And I think that that's really important. Because understanding who your people are, helps you craft something that allows them to be successful, because of who they are, what their desires are. So I think it's like there's such an emotional component to this is we all like emotional sales, and all that kind of stuff. But it's if you're going to help someone to actually be successful, the reason why every diet works, and the reason why every diet fails, is because it's so general, that everybody is so different, and what they're going to come at, and this is where it always comes down to where it's just as whatever works is what works. And this is what I liked the most about what you're going to present, what we're going to talk about is this idea that it is, you give people that power back, you give that target audience back, whether it's overweight dads, or moms that have recently had a baby or whatever it's going to be that helps them kind of get back control, and not Lukic continuously lose that control to this other third party entity.



Tyler 17:15

And I think that, like I said before, where you can start with exercise, and it can inspire you to start to eat better. That is how it went for me, I think you can go the other way around. And I think for a lot of people, that's actually the best pathway towards long term success. If I'm being realistic. If I had to choose for you to start exercising and spend 12 weeks exercising regularly, or spend 12 weeks like eatin like and learning a lot about food just like you would about exercise, I promise you that 12 weeks of nutrition, like really diligent diligently following a nutrition plan will have far better outcomes, not only in that 12 weeks, but six months down the road a year down the road, two years down the road, because they're actually learning how to address the fucking problem. And a lot of people who want to lose weight or are in a position to lose a lot of weight. They don't see themselves as exercisers, the gym is actually so far away from their psychology, and we did a little test with this program that we're gonna get into. I run a program, it's like five weeks, it's written normally for men, particularly, it's not actually gender, gender specific at all in the way that it's designed. It's just that I look like somebody that dudes would talk to and girls don't want to look like me. So there's not, it's just not a situation where I'm getting hit up by a bunch of chicks going, Hey, how do I do? How do I look like you? It's just not how this works for me. But this program, I knew, and I had tested the workout portions. And I've kind of tuned up the nutrition stuff a lot. And this is a process. And what I've done is I also realized that a lot of the people who need this just need to lose weight, or just need to fix the food. And for the guys that would do the program. There's a lot of guys that would do the program that like we're almost in denial about the food stuff, they would do the workouts and I'm having to through the accountability function that we'll get into I was having to be like, hey, motherfucker, what are you doing? Like you're not doing this, you need to be doing this, you actually need to eat these things. You can't just follow the plant stick. People had a very hard time, but the people who failed were the ones that almost never even started doing the food stuff. So we kept tuning up the program and figuring out how we can get this so that the food stuff is locked in tight. It's easy, it works. But they have to actually make a change and then we can sniff it out right away when they're just not. Because if you're going to hire a nutritionist and the first two days, you're literally not following the plan, then fuck you. You're never going to do anything. It's not the plan. It's not the nutritionist. But what I found is that the workouts were just a thing. Like they're just a thing. They're not any better or worse than anything else I've ever made. They're fine. I'll work up Listen, there's no fucking secret sauce and anything you're gonna do in the gym. There's just not Here's some shit that's less optimized, more optimized for what is the great question. But when it comes to the nutrition stuff, that's where everybody needs it. And the guys that did the nutrition the best were the ones that just really crushed it. And not even did it. More strictly or anything like this, it's the ones that were enthusiastic about the ones who were like, man, it felt great. So we then rolled the same program out and I said, No workouts, get rid of the workouts, Ellis. And I have never got so much interest off of a singular Facebook post ever. So that connected to this one piece, I think of weight loss psychology that matters. First, this thing we talked about a bit ago is it's an ecosystem, you just want to add exercise, okay, you might have success. But if you just add nutrition, if you just fix the nutrition, you will lose weight. That is a sure guarantee, if you just add exercise, there is no guarantee you're gonna lose weight, you will get exercise, you will probably get fitter as long as you don't eat your way to oblivion. But there is not necessarily a guarantee that you will lose weight. If you've been coaching long enough, you know those people. So I think that that is a piece that now I have some groups of guys going through just nutrition only. And from there, we see now a lot of really cool



John Fairbanks 21:14

stuff. Well, the results were faster. And were more consistent across the board of your general people that we tested this with because it's we're no longer tripping over $100 bills to pick up nickels. Yeah, where's this element where it is the workouts were actually getting everyone confused, they didn't realize they were getting confused. But it was a mis prioritization. They



Tyler 21:38

thought that was it, I killed it in the gym, bro. Like, that's



John Fairbanks 21:41

like you have a duty that you're in it for this reason. And this is where this is also, if anybody it's you can make less money up front, by doing a nutritional focus first with someone and getting their meals, right? Because now you're not programming or you're not physically training somebody and doing all those elements. But the idea of longevity for that person, once they've experienced that success on the nutrition side, and they're feeling better about themselves, because they've hit some major milestones, the the longevity they have with you, once they then move into the physical component of that adding workouts is now they actually have their mind is in the right spot to then be able to build on that. And I think that's huge in the long run.



Tyler 22:23

So what I do here, here's the structure, this program, I run this program for five weeks, it's a five week process. So this is where we're trying to separate what I'm selling from like the scammy shit, it's not like a six week crash diet. It's not starve yourself for six weeks. So it's not anything like this. This is a five week learning process. Right. And in that process, what you're going to do is there's some criteria that you can eat in each meal. There's just, I have a list of things and kind of a list of quantities for the all of you ScienceBase lifters out there. You can go fuck yourself, if you want to try to tell me that well, how are you guaranteeing the calorie deficit? Well, because for breakfast, it says they can have between two and six eggs. And I say if you're trying to gain size or build muscle or you're bigger, you can end up on the high side of that, if you're trying to lose weight or trying to lose weight at a faster pace you eat on the low side of that. And if we're consistent over a long enough timeline, and you get real fucking hungry the rest of the day, you'll probably dial it up the next day or the next or whatever, right. So this is a process, okay. And it is a process of teaching somebody how to just take a little bit better care of themselves, how to eat stuff, that's a good quality things and then to make sure that they don't have to feel miserable not only from starving all day, or whatever, which we do get into a little bit. But I also feel most guys end up realizing at the end of the program that they used to feel miserable from eating so much, that that's actually what makes them feel miserable during the daytime. That's why they get tired in the late morning. That's why they felt like they were starving at noon. And that's why every motherfucker wants to crash at two o'clock, three o'clock is done. And the end of the day just drags on because they're usually eating too much. So my thing has always been in this program was I want you to feel light and loose when you're doing stuff. I worked like some real blue collar ship for a lot of years and like my father in law, rest in peace, but we would be at a Chinese buffet. Two out of the five days a week on our lunch break at work. We might do a pizza buffet the third and then fuckin fast food the other two. And there are a lot of days where we get back at one o'clock and be like, I'm fucking sleeping in the van. Fuck off. I'd like to ball up on a bundle of insulation on a cold concrete floor. And I'd have to just chill for 45 minutes because there is no way I'm even staying awake. And a lot of guys, the way that they eat that is that way you have if you have lunch so you feel tired and rundown after lunch and you blame it on the work that you have to do Like none of us think like no motherfucker, you ate too much. You just ate too much. And people don't. When they guys don't see that, because they don't have that little bit of seed, it's like you should just eat so that you can feel the way that you want to feel. Afterwards, not eating a shitload of ice cream so I can feel the way I want to feel right then while I'm eating that ice cream because food does not have this. Food and access doesn't have this long lasting, good feeling actually goes away very quickly, the food hangover is actually almost immediate. You go have a bunch of ice cream or a bunch of dessert, a big heavy pasta, a heavy lunch, you will feel amazing only while it's going in your goddamn mouth. And the moment it's done, I know this because I've eaten like a fat guy. That's how I got about that life. I know this because one of the reasons I don't like to go out to eat that much is because when I get to eat, if I'm eating out, I'm gonna have a big hearty meal. I don't want to be out in public. I want to be home on my couch. Like for sure. So when I go to those places, like I said, the food, food joy is shorter than most drugs. And that's one of the things that I want to make sure that my guys do throughout this program. And basically, they eat a small breakfast now. And I'll get guys to come in and say I don't eat breakfast, say okay, well, you are 150 pounds overweight. So I don't care what the fuck you have done, or what the fuck you like done, you've done a lot of things you like that have apparently worked against you. So for now, because you're paying me to guide you through this process. You're going to do what this process says. Now, a lot of times there's a as I've talked through this with people, as people say, Well, yeah, but you so you're saying a guy that doesn't want to eat breakfast, just, you're just gonna make them eat breakfast every day, like fasting is just fine, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's not the point at this point of the program. At this point of the program, it's Can you fuckin do one of the things slightly different than you want to do just once for a week? Once like, you can't follow a plan for a week, as simple as just eating a couple of eggs or having a protein shake or having whatever else there's some allowables on it, right? Some fruit, like, there's plenty of options that are in there that a person can have. But when someone's first thing is, well, here's what I like to do. It's like, well, you liked a lot of things that put a lot of weight on your body. So you don't get to do those things anymore. And I'm, you're paying me to tell you no. And the truth is, later on in the program, we get into fasting, we experiment. Throughout this process, you're gonna experiment with eating a very light breakfast, so you have some energy, so you have something in your stomach, but I want you to learn what it feels like to not have nothing. And that is clear because when you're fasted, you have this clear sharp mental acuity that I do like, which represents probably more than half of my days. Half of my week I will fast till 4pm. The other half is I eat something very late in the day. But I don't like that totally crisp, clear feeling all the time because sometimes when guys do that, when guys like the overweight guys that say I don't eat breakfast. Yeah, because you picked out so fucking much the night before. guys eat late and they eat a shitload of food. And then they're full and they feel like shit, the next morning, they got about 15 pounds of shit. They got to get out throughout the day. And then by the evening when they start cracking into the booze by nine o'clock, ready to go again. And then they're hungry. So don't take this as something. You don't get some attaboy for me because I don't eat breakfast. I don't need that. Okay, well, this the, again, your ecosystem is fucked. So I'm just gonna spend a couple of weeks just doing some kind of normal shit. And that's the reality of it. If you can't spend a couple of weeks doing some mostly normal person shit. Don't wonder why you have a very not normal body. Don't wonder why you look like mutated physically, because you eat like somebody who's mutating themselves. It's crazy.



John Fairbanks 28:57

And what I liked the most as you are ramping over the five weeks, there isn't an adherence to one specific thing. So if whatever you might be whatever you want to do, like you said, like the first step is just stick to the plan for the first couple of weeks. You stick to the plan for the first couple of weeks, mainly because we want to start building the habits of doing some things that you haven't been doing before. Yeah. And what's more important, as in this is for all of you dorks that are way, way deep into the food science. It's understanding your signals. We all know how important what your signal is. Are you hungry? Do you know what hunger is? Are you thirsty? Are you bored? We've listened, we've gone balls deep into this shit over the years. Yeah. So that's important. But how do you actually get somebody there practically? That is 150 pounds overweight, their signals are going to be fucked six ways from Sunday. Yeah, so the reality is, is that this simple task of like, do just follow what's on the paper for the first couple of weeks? Because then you will start like this. stuff starts to get cleared up, and then you then shift them, which is great. Now we're going to do this. And now we're going to introduce you to the next piece that allows you to dive even deeper into this. What are my signals? What am I feeling throughout



Tyler 30:12

this whole process, we didn't get into this yet. But like what happens, they sign up, they get paid up. And against that an intro document that lays out the expectations for this whole thing. So kind of everything I've described up to this point, that intro documents I continue to build upon from week to week. Every time I run a group of guys through this program, I tune up that intro document. If you guys act, like total is about things, and I go, Okay, I'm gonna warn them right away. And the intro document, don't be like this. This is what people who suck do. These people don't get results and don't do this. And so you can start to lay out what you learn from these other things. This is the DB debriefing process we talked about with our programs if you start to add layers and layers as you go through. So the starting point for me was this. So I need a five week evolution evolving process where I want to take a man who eats like shit and pays no attention, his head, his head buried into the sand, and I want to get him paying attention. I want to teach him it's not that bad. I want to teach him the joy of feeling light throughout your day. And not feeling like oh shit, I don't feel full. I better stuff myself so that I feel full, because they don't understand that that actually makes them feel miserable in the morning. Until that starts to wane. And then they eat a big lunch and they feel miserable all afternoon. And they just don't realize that not only is it not making them feel good, but it's fucking them over physically pretty bad. I want to teach them the joys of being like the joys of good food quality, and also how easy it is. Honestly, this is why this is a guy because it's like, most of us at least around where I'm from, like we could put meat on heat. We put heat on the meat and give us a carb, a potato or rice veggies like we can be fine if I can have steak on fire, chicken on fire, whatever on a fire. We're fine. Like, like you, that used to be considered eating like a king. Do you understand that? Like it's it's pretty easy to eat like you're not gonna go get the grass fed super dang cuts but like, you can fucking eat steak every day for pretty affordably. And steak or chicken or whatever, you can grill it, you can smoke pork, all of this stuff. I understand people are in different financial situations. But it is pretty goddamn affordable. And when you're eating a lot of just meat, you don't eat as much you are satisfied. So I want to teach that to guys because so many guys go, the amount of men that I'll hear are hungry, and they're like, have macaroni like go to dinner and get pasta. And it's like, bro, there's just nothing there for you. So we prioritize protein, I teach them that it's cheap, easy, delicious, and like is a fucking pretty high level way to live. Okay, and then from there, we dial in portion control performance, we experiment. But every single time when they get started, I lay off those expectations. Here's what this says, okay, then they're going to check in with me. I make them take before photos, I've been very clear. I said you keep them for yourself. So you don't need to send them to me right away. But you need to keep them for yourselves. You need to weigh yourself every day, you need to text me every morning when you get up. You need to tell me what you had for breakfast and what you weighed that morning. Men who do not want to weigh themselves are delusional. Listen, I get it. If you're coaching children, I have some high school students who by the way, their gig is I need you to be gaining weight. I am very cognizant of the dysfunction and can be if you make somebody whose brain is soft, start to attach their value and yada yada yada to the scale. Listen, if you're a 47 year old man, and you're 100 plus pounds overweight, you get to start obsessing over the scale or you're going to get to start obsessing over your fucking blood pressure. So take your pick. But in the very beginning, the thing that I always find when guys, so many of these guys, my heaviest guys don't have a scale when they started. Why do you suppose that is? So this is a piece of psychology for you guys, if you're thinking about crafting a nutrition program pay attention to this part. So I mean, three of them that started this week, were like, I'll have to go by a scale to march Wednesday. When I get a scale in the morning. I'll get weighed in by noon. That's what they've had to tell me. Because they don't own one. And then when they weigh themselves, they go Oh shit, I knew it was bad. I didn't know it was so bad so why do I have them weigh in? Is it because they should obsess over losing weight day to day? Is it because that's the primary goal? Well, it is the primary goal. But the reality is it's of no harm for a man to get on the scale and see what it is everyone. It's crazy to be like such a chick about it. If you look like I don't need to know that. I'm just more worried about the mirror. Shut up, dude. Just fucking weigh yourself, dude be a dude about this. I tell every one of them and they've all agreed. So the point where I've now added this into the intro document is that fellas ask yourself this one question because I say why? Right, Why? I have to. Why do I have to weigh myself every day? The reason you have to weigh yourself every day, if you had to weigh yourself for the last every day for the last year, would you have gained that last 20 pounds? No. So this is weighing yourself every day telling somebody what that is. And then tying that into here's what I ate for breakfast. I'm about to start my day with this on my mind. That is how we stop burying our heads in the fucking sand. And coaches that want to go, Yes, but how are you ensuring the caloric deficit if you don't know what their baseline is, it's like, oh, you never coached fucking people. Or you don't understand the actual psychology of weight loss that got somebody overweight. And then what it takes to get them back, you've been coached fit people in fit places with fit motherfuckers around just being fit yourself. And I hate to break it to you. But there's a lot of people out there that have gained a lot of weight to lose. They would pay a lot of money for someone that can actually help them. Instead of someone that's just going to help what parrot science is to them. You're going to pair to study where you say, well, they can never ensure wonderful, but then you can never ensure what they're actually doing. You can always ensure the changes that need to happen in their psychology throughout this way yourself everyday is a confidence that, hey, I'm trying today. I'm looking at this today. I'm not avoiding this today. I'm not running from this problem today. Going and eating a real breakfast not a big fat hearty breakfast. This is when people say breakfast is the most important meal of the day. You know this ruse right? I like trash. Yes, of course. I feel like that was also to sell the worst kinds of breakfast foods right? It



John Fairbanks 36:32

was just like, it was by Kellogg's, right like they're the ones that fucking created sell bullshit.



Tyler 36:37

My fitness people. The fittest people I know are the strongest people, the fittest people I know when they start to interpret breakfast as the most important meal of the day. They get up and crush breakfast. You know what I mean? It's like it's a big breakfast. And I used to do that too. If my breakfast were legendary. And then I'd have to eat an hour and a half later and an hour and a half later and an hour and a half later. Because the goal Tyler, the goal is to get fucking huge. Used to the goddamn gills. So if you, too, want to get to the buffet, I think I paid about 340 And I still had the body scan John, I was like 11 11% body fat at 340. And so it's like vascular at 340. And it's like that's a lot to do. And that has a lot to do with steroids, guys. And so at that time, yes, can I tell somebody you need to eat 10 eggs, two cups of hash browns, and one of those whole sleeves, a Walmart Cerrito and then one at 630. And then at like 830 ish. After you leave the office to go to your first call, you eat your first meal of steak and rice. You know, this is what that really is. But I think that breakfast is a big breakfast. No, you don't have to have a big breakfast, you don't have to have any breakfast. But for this first couple of weeks, you're gonna have a couple eggs or a protein shake or something or something. And there's some criteria that fits.



John Fairbanks 37:58

On weighing yourself. There's also an important aspect psychologically, if we're going to stick with dudes, you might have some female dudes out there that feel this way as well. But there are magic numbers and all of our lives. And those magic numbers, if you're a big guy, you want to be able to bench 405 pounds. You want to bench 315 pounds, right? You want to be able to like there are magic numbers that if you're in the fitness space, we all know what they are. Four plates, three plates, whatever it is, whatever those magic numbers are. There's also magic numbers for weight. When you remember what you weighed in your senior year of high school, I cannot tell you how many times you will watch people that are proud of themselves where they are. I am back at my high school. Wait,



Tyler 38:46

I got one of those this year. I got one of those this winter. Yeah, like I haven't weighed this little since I was in high school. That



John Fairbanks 38:52

means you remember the how much you fucking weight in high school. I wasn't even obsessed about weight. I was obsessed about weight the wrong way. Because my coaches all told me I was too light. Right? 245 was as heavy as I could get in high school. It was a goddamn problem that I wasn't a 300 pound left tackle. And it was a massive issue. But I still remember that number. So those are magic numbers. And that's where if you're weighing yourself all the time, that magic numbers up there, whether they tell you it or not. And that is that constant renewal of That's right, I'm working towards that magic number even if it's 150 pounds away right now, and



Tyler 39:24

I'm trying to get to I want to reconcile some of these plans and processes with I don't want to change the plans but I want to be equipped for people that do have maybe a high risk of food dysfunction, right eating just disordered eating and things like this to where yeah, man I gotta be I gotta keep an eye out on it, I guess. But again, like I don't know what to say. Like you can sit people freak out. We talked about way and food that it's going to make everybody fucking anorexic or something and it's like, well, if I'm being honest, most of the people who I know who are against weighing food are fucking fat. Who you mentioned, you need to start weighing your food for a little bit. So you know what it is? People are not going to wait people who are literally the loudest about it are the ones who like, Okay, well, I don't know what to tell you, you, you're the one who's got the weight to lose. That's the reality of it is that in my experience, the people who are nice who are even on this program, right? In this program, you don't have to weigh everything, most of it in regular quantities, right? But when they get do it to me, I'm like, Yeah, you need like a eight to 14 ounce portion of steak, chicken, beef, pork or whatever, at the end of the day, right? Something like that. Like that's, it's a range, right? So theoretically, if you've weighed something once or twice, you can be pretty close. Right? You can be on the low end, you can be on the high end, but you can you know, what, a, that's a pretty big range, right, John? Right. Like, I think like eight to 14 ounce portion is like, you can pretty much hit that with an eyeball. Once you've waited a couple times. Once, you know, the people come through this program, that's their first thing when they read the program is oh, what do I gotta weigh everything? Like, no, you're gonna weigh this thing. And then you're just going to eat steaks that are between eight and 14, you're right, you're just going to eat, you're not going to obsessively weigh everything, I made one fucking thing about ounces. And these people go, Oh, my God, I gotta be a fucking, I gotta carry a scale around. It's like, well, it's better than carrying your fucking big, huge ass around all the time. So you want to fix this, and I'm using a lot of colorful language here. But I'm, again, on this program, I'm working with dudes. And if they're going to be working with me, they're going to get it or they're going to not get it. But processes like the people whose red flags are up like, well, I don't want to be a person who has to use a food scale. But this is why this program is not a weighing all your food program, it's a you need to know a few of these skills. So we spend these five weeks calibrating a little bit, you're gonna waste some shit. So you know what a reasonable portion of steak looks like, you're gonna know, once you eat one of those, they're like, Oh, well, maybe I, I feel more full off of one steak, one potato and one good serving of vegetables than I would if I ate an entire fucking Domino's Pizza. And I've gotten way less calories, I'm more full off of the steak. And I actually got some protein out of this deal. And that's those little lessons that people need to understand and realize that they actually feel better when they eat better. And that it's not about the scale. Like it's not somebody has to come in and adopt weighing food as their thing. It's like no, but this is just one more aspect you need to know, as opposed to knowing the information instead of hiding from the information.



John Fairbanks 42:30

So you establish the expectations up front, we have the expectation document, call it make you feel really bad about how fucking stupid and fat they



Tyler 42:39

are we live in.



John Fairbanks 42:42

And we're building those habits. And I think because we kind of like it's an expectation document, and then habit building of weighing yourself taking photos of yourself, there is a new thing that I liked the most, that you have, didn't have originally, but then started to see a back to that ecosystem. how important this ecosystem is. And this is, for lack of a better term, a contract with themselves, their families, their co workers, whoever. Yeah,



Tyler 43:10

so we have not, this is literally now getting rolled into the program right now. Because this is the thing that I recognize most of the guys that have the most success with this program. And the ones who have the bet, frankly, it's these are we talking about ecosystem, their families are on board, their spouse is like, Yes, I'm here to support you, I'll work with you on dirt happy, right, if your spouse doesn't like seeing you get in shape red flags at home, first off, also sent me red flags for you to stay in shape. If you're if you let your kids eat like just obnoxious, borderline abusive amounts of sugar candy all the fucking time, you're gonna have a hard time sticking to a real diet at your house. Also, they need to know what mommy and daddy are trying to do. They need to know this stuff. And it's also important that they know that you're doing this for them for your own health as well that you're there. So you can be there when they graduate high school. So you can be there to see your grandkids so that you can have a long and fruitful life as a parent. And so having this thing where, however you structure it. And this may be by the way, a level up this is why this wasn't in the first two iterations of these things as we built but we always debrief to see what are the gaps. And I feel like this wasn't the thing that we were missing because guys were failing. It was it the guys who had this locked in, inherently fucking crushed it, dude. And so I want somebody's wife to look them in the eye. I want a man to look his wife in the eyes. I'm trying to do this so that I can get healthier. A man who has that conversation at home, dude, first off, you're getting it. Trust me to, like, you can't have things going on working against you at your house. If you and your wife are both trying to quit smoking. If you're trying to quit smoking cigarettes or she's not. It's gonna be hard for you to quit smoking at home. They may work one day and two days but it ain't gonna work. Call the days and you're just it's not gonna work. So that thing getting them body in a whole matters, but not just because they need to not have you working against them. But also a part of that conversation is that I want to make sure that the family's honest to God, even coworkers and friends of a person that do this. I think it's important for you to tell your friends just much like you do. If you're getting sober, you need to call your dealer and be like, don't answer my phone anymore. You need to call your old friends back, Hey, man, I'm cool with you. Like, I can't be hanging out with you for this type of stuff. This is a lot like that. So you do need to let the people around, you know, maybe not your co workers. But start at home first. That's the basis. But if a man loses 10 pounds, and he works really hard, and he's there digging away, and it's not, listen, we're not doing all this so we can get attaboys. And we're not doing these Schicksal bias drinks or whatever. I know whatever men think happens when they get in shape. But like, we're not gonna, we're not doing any of this stuff. For like outward things kind of man, you're not gonna get any of this stuff as a man, I want you to know that it's going to come it's going to be way delayed. And that's unfortunate. And so this is why I want the spouses to be like when you notice, make sure that you tell them. You just listen as a guy, you bust your ass, you lose 15 pounds, and you're really strict and weak. Man, we can do a lot of things with no reward, with no psychological reward, no attaboys No, nothing we can do, we can really, really do those things. It's mostly what our life is, what it means to be a man, I guess. But I can tell you this. You give a man a thing like, hey, like, you should really be proud of what you're doing here. Like, you look really good. And it's really fucking hard. I wish I could do it. I see all these other, like, tell a person when they're losing weight, that they look good. Tell them that you noticed for Christ's sake, because I mean it. As I have coached a lot of people through this. And having been in this situation myself, I probably remember every single person who complimented me and encouraged me in that first year. Because I, by the way, you know, you know why? Because I can count on fucking less than two hands. Yeah, that's the reality of it. And that completely changed my life, I got completely healthy, I lost 70 pounds or something like this, and became an entirely different person and opened all of that stuff. But during that process, I did all that with almost no positive reinforcement at all. I had a few though that were good. But that's what I'm saying is if I want that to be a part of the system in one way or another, I don't care if it's me messaging their co workers. But somewhere in there, I want this person when they've lost 15 pounds to be getting told that Yo, you look fucking good. Because once a guy hears that, once they go, sweet, I guess I'm just gonna eat awesome forever. That's enough. It really is enough, a man needs one compliment to change his entire fucking life forever with some momentum behind it. Oh, the sky's the limit. And



John Fairbanks 48:05

What I really liked about this is that if you do this contract where the families of the friends are with whoever is going to be in that inner circle of people that are going to support this dude, as they're about to do this thing. It makes sure that everybody's aware expectations are set that this is actually being strive for. Because there is an element. Like there's a lady that we know, that's close to our family who's going through a terrible divorce and wasn't telling anybody. She was horrible at home. Do you know what happened? Or



Tyler 48:35

What dude moves?



John Fairbanks 48:36

He was a total dude.



Tyler 48:37

You gotta I got a guy friend who likes us just to find out our divorce like, Yo, nice. Well done. She was so crazy.



John Fairbanks 48:49

She was so miserable. And suicidal through the whole thing that she stopped eating. So what happened? Oh, yeah,



Tyler 48:57

She likes the look that everyone tells you looks great, you look great. Satisfied.



John Fairbanks 49:04

And I've not been eating and I've been heavily drinking and just not eating. And I sleep all day because I'm so miserable, where she lost like 60 pounds. So it wasn't an insult to injury because because now it's like



Tyler 49:16

Hey, keep your dysfunction going right? And that's one of my biggest struggles here is like if it's people I can't tell if someone lost weight and it's via ozempic or something. I'm like hey, you also like you're looking good. Like you look nice. You look like you lost some weight. It's tricky like commenting on people's weight except that literally like it is what I do professionally. So while I don't come around and go hey, you look real nice. I don't do that necessarily. But like if I come in and be like yo you're looking jacked like you know what not to check out the ladies but like, it is my place to guys that I know you look like you drop some weight. It's okay, my problem here is like, if you do those things, I don't care but if you don't pay enough attention to people's personalities you don't know someone very well. I'm pretty sure I've said that to people who are like halfway through there. work in chemotherapy. You're sick? Yeah, you look, you know, I mean, because some people lose weight and they don't, there's not a lot of muscle anymore. So you're like, Yeah, you look like there's a lot less of you. And I've also seen very fit people who I comment on losing weight. And I'm not sure whether or not it's because they got cancer, you know what I mean? The reality of it. So you also worry like, am I reinforcing somebody's meth habit? Exactly, like, Oh, good, I'm really happy to get the weight off, I'm gonna go back to June now, you know, but positive reinforcement is big. And it can't just be from his coaches, right? It's okay, and it should be from you. But also doesn't all need to be it also doesn't need to be about them validating themselves for you. One of the biggest lessons in coaching, nutrition and fitness and in everything that I've learned is, to rephrase the term, I'm proud of you too, you should be proud. Now, there's a time and place to tell someone that you're proud of, I think that that should represent a portion of it. But as long as probably four out of five of them are, hey, you should be really proud of the work that you've done. You're not I'm proud of you, I'm coaches who say I'm proud of you too much. Those are the ones that are making it about them. And they're making it so that you can validate that you can validate your relationship to them and you want to succeed. So your coach is happy. And that's not. It's like no, no, I want you to be proud, you should be proud of the work. So this is what I go through my guys, like have these big breakthrough things like bro, you should you just so you know, you should be really fucking proud of this. It's impressive. And it's hard. And not a lot of people can do this. Not a lot of people make this turn. And they always come back to us a lot easier than I thought I would say. It's easier than I thought. So as we go through this process, again, we've got through, got them started. They're checking in with me every morning, the spouse is on board now. Right? Hopefully, while we may be, it may not be able to change the tune of what's going on at home 100%. There's at least been like, it's been said, here's what I'm doing, you know what I mean? So does give them a better chance, it means there's a higher likelihood of that not working against him. And then we'll just go through the process. And to be honest, the first three weeks are almost the exact same thing, there's slight changes, I go, we go out a little bit of extra meat, essentially into the breakfast, they have a few more options, maybe some slightly bigger quantities towards dinner, but everything's really basic eat real food put me to heat. If I can not even necessarily low carb, it's just reasonable carb portions, especially for this point because guys are exercising. So it's like you don't need to be you don't need 400 grams of fucking carbs here. But we avoid processed foods, we don't drink calories, we put cheat meals in their place, have a cheat meal once a week, not a cheat day. Teach them like you can't have these major setbacks, if you're going to have a major setback on your cheat meal know that the rest of your days need to be at the even lower end of that range. Right? If you're getting in the middle of the range I've described, but you're gonna go on a bender on Saturday, okay, well, you get an extra set of four. But that's the purpose of the range. Like you need to know, I teach them calorie math, right that approximately 3500 calories is stored in a pound of fat, which means every time we can save 3500 calories from you, from you putting in your face over the course of a year. Like you'll weigh up pound less. At the end of that year. That's, that's the generic message. I have these guys like, you know, I'd like to have a couple candy bars a week. So that's fine. No problem with it. And then they went, but I looked at it. Like, it's like 800 calories a week. And I was like, yeah, and they said that's like, how many calories is that? It's like 40,000 calories right? It's like 40,000 calories. And we're like, so if I just literally cut this out? Like probably, in theory, right? There's a lot of other therapies like that, like 10 pounds. Like, yeah, I don't know, maybe it's enough. You know what I mean? It's enough to matter. And I'm not saying you shouldn't have yourself some. But again, you can have them learn these things, they learn this balance they learned that you can have, you can have things that are outside of your diet that are immovable objects to you. You just can't have them in the first few weeks of this thing. You know, then we get into fasting. And I haven't fasted while tinkering with this. And the criteria is not, don't eat any day ever. In this fasting week, the way the rules go, is I just have them go, I want you for it just I think it's two days this week. You're not going to eat anything for breakfast, and you're not going to eat anything for lunch until I think it's after like 12:30pm base, you're gonna have a late lunch. And that's a pretty reasonable fasting duration for somebody to have. They're basically going from the night before all night. But that's just to teach you that, like, Hey, keep it, keep it reasonable when you come back in because they've spent three weeks setting these good habits and feeling good in the afternoon by not overeating their lunch. So now this is more of a test of whether you're gonna go in the morning without eating. But then came lunchtime. Remember the criteria: I Want to feel good the rest of the afternoon. So don't go because I'm hungry right now. I'm going to punish myself and feel like shit all day. Don't do that. And some of them may slip up. But they've learned that now. And they learn that with some clarity. And that part, I think can't be understated how important that is when guys get into that porch, because then they really cross the fasting part they take pride in and they really take pride in how well they feel while they're fasted. And then there's one day a week, on that week where I have him go, don't eat anything till 4pm Just fucking tough it out. I don't care if you don't like it. Just one day, one day this week, just do that. And on the other days, you're gonna eat just like you did on weeks one through three. Right? Totally normal. And guys fucking the fasting part. Some guys are the most scared of it. And before we get into it, but by the time they get to that week, they're like, Yeah, nice. I really, really, really enjoyed the reading. And I said,



John Fairbanks 55:55

I don't think it's going to move us forward. But the idea of just it's all of these things, all of this, this sequential nature of introducing these pieces to them, where it really is just five weeks of dudes fingering their own shit out. And that's what's so important because it's when you start the slow moving momentum, right? It's like this big train that we're getting moving trains are really slow getting started. And then as that momentum builds, and that vehicle is moving. Now, now they're able to where it's Oh, yeah, let's go. And now the momentum really started to pick up.



Tyler 56:32

And one of the things about this, you mentioned momentum as though it's, you're using the momentum in terms of tasks, and effort and then buying in. The truth is the wins on the scale. Because of the way we've set this up, for sure. We're not doing processed foods, it's relatively low carb, and the quantities are manageable, they're able to eat a big meal in the evening. So they don't feel like they've been starving for days. But like, these guys aren't eating a ton of food during the day, and they still feel okay. Which means we are getting wins early on, though, right. And that's really important, because the biggest thing that I see is that I can't have somebody spend three weeks and not lose any weight, and maybe lose a pound in three weeks, that's not what we're doing. I need every one of these good habits to be reinforced not only with how they feel, and externally, and with accountability, but with actual progress. It needs to actually be practice, and I have story guide, fucking crushing it. He's a heavy guy who's about 370 pounds when he started. And he's on day eight. And this morning, he checked and I think now he's down a total of like 14 policies in eight days. Now that is a lot of weight, it's a lot of water weight. He even told me that I used to be able to push on my shins with my fingers. And like even in print, I was like, Yeah, bro, like, as I said, so don't think that this is at all fat, that this is all fat. But I promise you, whatever, whatever you're not carrying around right now is better for you to not be carrying around. Whether that's undigested food in your stomach, whether it's water retention, it doesn't matter. He'll be flocking down a ton of weight by the end of this and not feeling hungry. And that's the biggest one is I could rush weight off these people and they'd be starving, but they do have to be wins. And this is why I never want to make this program about like, Well, no, we're gonna eat. It's gonna be the cleanest living ever, but you're probably going to weigh the same and you'll lose muscle at the same rate, you'll lose fat. So you'll just look like a smaller, sadder version of yourself, just not as heavy. That's not really the goal. But momentum starts to build here. And by the time we roll into this last phase of the program, which is now do whatever you want to do this week, the fifth week is I'd like you to try some fast and pick a day or two where it works best with you if you aren't going to work out. Right probably, I don't know. Maybe we get something in here in the morning or don't maybe try what we're going to try doing your cardio fasted, try and do it we'll try doing it while you've had something in your stomach feel the difference? Try eating like you did in week two. But you're now in charge. But you have these tools and this front whatever's within any framework you've seen here you can do this week. And most guys blend into this like pretty practical version where they've now chosen they'll fast a couple of days when it's convenient, right? There's nothing worse than letting convenience kill you. Convenience is the thing that gets people fat. They go Oh shit, I didn't have breakfast this morning. But I had a huge lunch last night so now I'm not that hungry and by 10am I'm starving and Well, I gotta eat something because for the last five years every time I felt this tiny little tinge of hunger I've satisfied it with something immediately so since we don't break that habit guys just based on convenience, I'll go and eat fucking gas station food, fast food, whatever. But here guys are using inconveniences as a way to make their diet better. They're like I was in a hurry this morning. I'll just fast this morning. I'll just grab lunch because I know better. I'm going to make Sure, John, that was me, I'm afraid. Yes. I'm gonna say the camera. I'm gonna make sure that I don't make this completely set me back. And because I've had this experience, I also know that if I'm not eating in the next four hours, I'm fine. Yep. And I've been that guy. I know you've been that guy too. I've traveled a lot training a lot, rather than like, if I didn't get my food every two hours. I was like, mad, irritable. It's kind of in hindsight now, it's probably like one of the most embarrassing phases of my fitness nutrition career is where I've been, like, I have to eat. I've been on the road for three hours. If I don't eat something right fucking now it's going to be a fucking problem. And now I know for sure I could not eat all day today, I would not have a problem for another 12 hours, I'd be hungry, but I would be fine.



John Fairbanks 1:00:48

One of my favorite stories is when you first got out to Europe, and you guys had been traveling for a long time. And you were like in a car with this really autistic motherfucker that was driving, and you hadn't eaten in a while. And essentially, it just was like you had threatened everyone's life, because you had not gotten food in X amount of time. I remember you telling on a podcast from years and years ago.



Tyler 1:01:13

What this guy did too, was he took us to a fucking tickets to a vegan spot. And I'm like, Hey, like, I'm not trying to be a guy, be a guy about this here. But like, I was like, this isn't gonna fucking work for me. You didn't drive me all the way through the city to like, for me to stop it like a vegan hotdogs, but that even turned out to be closed. So they just weren't ready for that.



John Fairbanks 1:01:40

Everything that you've described, and this process is special all the way up to that last week where somebody is then fully in the driver's seat. Yeah, they're no longer being led, because this really is just your guiding folks on this path. And is this to the realization that they are able to do it and get really, really woowoo. But it's this concept where it's as they are the reason why they were successful. Every step of the way, they were the reason. And this was one of the biggest things as we were hashing out and like you said, going through post mortems. And looking at how we can improve it every step of the way. And every iteration of this every iteration of improvement. What I liked the most about it is that they weren't successful, because they were keto. They weren't successful because they were carnivore or vegan, or vegetarian or high carb or low carb or whatever. They were successful, because they did it. They were successful. And it's one of those things where you, you don't get you don't allow them to have the opportunity where they say I was successful because of the diet I was doing. I was successful because of keto. Or I failed, because of keto. Well, just keto didn't work for me. Yeah. And I can't tell you how many guys that I've interacted with over the years where it's like, well, I need to lose weight. And like you guys are doing keto, right, yeah, we're doing it. It's like, okay, well, well, I'll give it a try. And then they do it. And then they go to their doctor, and the doctor says, Oh, you're dying. What are you eating right now? And they go, Oh, well, it's keto. And then that person stops doing anything completely. Because they have given up all accountability to the gods of dieting.



Tyler 1:03:20

Whoever's named this diet. Exactly.



John Fairbanks 1:03:23

And we completely avoid that psychosis because it's equally bad. And it's why we've all tried a diet to a diet to a diet. The difference is, if we're fitness folks, it's like, Oh, give it a try. Just so I know what the fuck everybody's talking about. But there's a big difference between average people where it's like that everything is on this diet that they're about to do it. What's



Tyler 1:03:44

what's like a, like the high road and the high road fitness professional take because we don't do these crashes. We don't just die. We eat healthy over the lifestyle, because whatever. But what is that, except like picking any of these diets work. So just picking like some components of each one of them that work for you that fit and that fits your lifestyle and the way you want to eat and your preferences. And I mean, if I had to choose what I would do, it would be probably not entirely keto. But mostly, my exceptions would be carbs, right? My cheat meals are definitely going to involve carbs. But on a daily basis, I can get by on St. Mostly keto. I probably don't have more than a cup of carbohydrates a day whether it's potatoes or rice or something like that. It's not a ton. But again, or carnivore, but can I have some sauce and the occasional potato catch up? Can I yeah, like I don't know. Like that's, that's where like all these things like we're, we're all pretty close. And so you know, when you get into like, let's say carnivore, well, what are the real benefits of carnivore, right? If you eat a lot of meat, you're getting lots of nutrient dense food, you're also going to be pretty full. You're getting something your body is from a physique standpoint capable of doing right? If you train, you're breaking down protein, you're giving your body all the tools it needs to rebuild the protein. Well, like just meat on meat on meat. Like they literally used to call that losers launch. Remember Metallica's behind the music just like sandwich meat on hand, losers lunch. And like that's what the fuck are you like, if that's the point where all you're doing is shoveling. So I could do it if I could have some barbecue sauce and steak sauce and catch up there. I could probably do keto for a really long time, until I wanted to eat a fucking potato with some cheese on it. And I'm not going to be married to the dogma of keto. So what has to work for me? What principles do I need to extract? Well, high protein seems to work for me, it's easiest fits my budget, it still is good. It makes me not feel hungry. If I get into that high carb like real performance dieting, which I've done before, lots of rice. During those times I was eating the most I ate this legendary breakfast, I was also eating about 15 cups of rice a day. So most people couldn't do a third of that without hating their lives. And I did that for 12 weeks at a time twice a year for years. And so people have no fucking clue how much that you can really, really feel great, but it's a you're on the roller coaster that your energies on that roller coaster, you're really you're really stuck to that process. So I go high protein, probably enough carbs to fit my training. And it's not that much right now. It's just it's not a ton. I don't need a ton to not feel rundown and to feel like I'm strong enough in the gym. I'm not responding great to some of the carbs and I'm having so if I start to even as you get older, you'll start to have weird allergies, sensitivities. If one day you just realized that man, I can't like anytime I have pizza that no like fucking ruins me now. And I never used a piece of pizza as my number one most sought after cheat meal until the last six months. And every single time I've had an event in order not to access his likes, I'm gonna ruin me for days, I just really don't feel good. And so it's kind of out. But having enough of those experiences with clarity allows me to know now that while I can keep my program that I'm trying to run, the things that are in bounds may not change too much. The things that are out of bounds, some of them move even further out of bounds as I go. And that's the benefit of doing this with some clarity. And that's where over the course of years now, instead of me instead of having pizza once every month, and having a shitload of it on that day, it might be once every six months now. While that saves me from any of the damage pizzas do to my physique. And it saves me from having to stress over all those extra calories and having to make that up. It just makes the rest of my system easier and smoother, more smooth. So but there's a process and this is what I want to send them off with. I want to send them off now, with that understanding. Because of the way the keto diet fails, if I sold you six weeks of keto, what are you going to do when you get off of this program? I'm about to carb the fuck up. You If I told you six weeks of counting macros exclusively and weighing everything and logging it tracking it on your food? Well, I've given you these burdens of this burden, some other tax, other tests to do, which sucks. And then now at the end, you're going to not do those tests anymore, because they're a pain in the eyes. And if there wasn't any handoff, to get that information from like true measured specific, accurate data to like an intuitive system that works for you. Without you having to be weird and bringing a food scale to the stores you go to or the restaurants you eat at, then it failed. And that's why most diets though, people will say, Yeah, I lost X amount of weight while I was on this diet and then boom, put it all back on. It's like, Well, it's because that diet was the only thing reining in your caloric intake. So whatever you can do to rein in your caloric intake is going to work in the short term. But we need to make sure that we can carry them, give them the skills that they need and the understanding to go . How do I keep my calories low? Now? What do I like, what don't I like and they have to understand that game and that process before they leave, or else they've learned nothing. And then that's fine, but then they're going to have to continue to do this very specific, probably not very ecosystem friendly thing for their family or their lifestyle, their work or any of this stuff. It can't be hard for six weeks. It should be hard for a couple of weeks while they figure it out. And then it should almost get easier and more intuitive and more eye opening and more rewarding as they go. Good nutrition is like a good relationship. It shouldn't be like, Yes, this is fantastic. And then it gradually wanes off. It should go, this is God, this is promising. You know, let's put some effort into this. And then it becomes something really special. And I think that that's important. I think that's what a good nutrition process should be like for your clients. And maybe there's a place for short term turn and burn challenges with this stuff too. I'm still not opposed to like, being like real strict on this shit for like three weeks of being like, let's fucking hit it, let's hit the fasting part, I might roll out a beta testing group with that at some point, just because that's a opportunity for me to zoom into that one narrow little lesson. But where this sits right now, that process, I think, is it's the most impactful program I have ever built.



John Fairbanks 1:10:22

And it gets us to the point where our goal, right is, we want to be able to revolutionize what we're doing with gym owners and with coaches and personal trainers, but allowing you to be able to revolutionize what that fitness looks like in your communities. Because if you really zoom back, you look at something like this to implement something like this. How fast could you get 1000 pounds off people in your community? Yep. Like most immediately, how quickly could you do it? For us? Like the idea of like, well, if I could get 10 Dudes to lose 100 pounds? How fast? Could I get 10 guys to lose 100 pounds 20 3050. Guys, and so this is where it's, this is doable. From a personal training perspective. It's doable from a gym's perspective of being able to implement these things, but you have to do it. And this is where something as loose as this, this guiding principle concept of taking something from one to five weeks is this can be done. And this is the kind of stuff that we can do. We sit down and we brainstorm and take a look at what are you doing in your gym right now? As a gym owner? What are you providing? What are the opportunities? What are the choices you are giving people that come into your spot, and if this is a blind spot for you, or you have rationalized your way completely out of providing anything at all, this is really a solid framework. That is you are more than capable of picking up and running with and a bare minimum, then if you're unable to do it yourself, then it's then fucking come talk to us. Yeah, the idea of being able to show you what are the elements that need to be included? How quickly can you start running it? And then being able to use what we talk about all the time? Which is that inside out approach within your own business to where how quickly can you be truly impactful and make real lasting change within a community and just with generations of people? And



Tyler 1:12:09

I also like to close up some of these loops here. So we talked about the program. Then what? Okay, personally, through this program, you do this just like you do everything else, you harvest testimonials, especially from your most successful people, those that lost a ton of weight, you ask them hey, would you be willing to share your before and after pictures with me? I can throw out your face if you like or not. But I want to make sure to show these successes. This is what a person accomplished in just five weeks. Right? Because it is just five weeks, dude, it sounds scammy but it's not because you heard what you've just heard what I went through to you know, this isn't one of those things like eating salad and nothing else. Do we have someone fucker here? No messing around. Here's one. There's some motherfucker here, personal trainer, pure hack, and it was going through this shit dude. He was like, trying to tell everybody on the internet that he's going to do this diet. I think it was nothing but pineapple and cucumber or something like that. For like 30 days. It was just shitty sauce some fucking Chaco, you should do but it's like that then claim that he does it every fucking year or something like this and just posted about it within like, fucking four days was like I'm down 20 pounds. And we're like, yeah, I guess diarrhea will do that to you. I don't really know about food, but we'll do it together. And then after like, maybe like 10 days and all guys, just all these people and I bless their hearts. I say that the wrong youth from the south. That's an insult. And it's kind of they're not bad people, but they're fucking morons, if you're responding to this, like, okay, so is this just this or, like, if you're literally asking real questions about a diet of I'm just gonna eat one, one kind of fruit. This is fucking stupid. And just like, holy shit, I'd love to lose 20 pounds this week. You know the difference between what I've just explained to you for the program that we do. And that, right? But when people can really see good results in a quick amount of time, you can know that it's done ethically. They don't fucking know or care. That's the reality. And you pit people. This is where gym owners and coaches and shit they get all their high horse and go, Well, this isn't like one of those other things. And if you can, I've said this before, if we can lose a pound a week, we're doing really, really good, right? Because what's that going to be in a year is a life changing amount of weight. Notice the pace that I'm describing is faster in this six week program. Why? Because we want to win early on. I'm not trying to do the most sustainable thing but I want these wins early on so that people can have some momentum. When people see that one client I lost 28 pounds. Probably my biggest success in pounding is 28 pounds in five weeks. This then went on in the next three weeks after that to lose another 12 pounds. So there's 40 pounds down in eight weeks. That's a pretty solid testimonial. So this is why it's important for you guys to get those testimonials, screenshots from their correspondence because you should be communicating with them throughout the process as well as telling him when they check in. Oh shit, you're done X. That's awesome. Nice word How you feeling? Are you feeling better during the day feeling tired during the day? Because then you have these beautiful little screenshots for people in your program like, no, actually, I feel really great today I had really high energy, I can't believe I feel this good. Having skipped breakfast and lost 10 pounds in the last few weeks is amazing. That's all you need to do to sell this program to everybody forever. Keep that in mind, close your loops. Don't just make this a turn number and program you get them in you get them out. And don't let people not be successful, because that's not caring. Build the system so that they can be accountable and be successful. When people are successful. leverage that to get you more leads, because that's important. And those are your bet that your most valuable asset is people's people's successes that they've already had with you. And



John Fairbanks 1:15:49

We've talked about how nutrition can be your ultimate downside. Yes, right. And so we did an entire episode. So go back into the archive and look at where we literally talked about how you can do it. We weren't this detailed, right, because of what the nutrition program can be and what it is. And this gives you that blueprint, but it can be your ultimate downside, but also understand that everyone that comes through this program locally with you, right, could you do this right? Could you start to become a nutrition influencer, Tyler and do this all online and do it remotely,



Tyler 1:16:20

by the way you want to hit me up, let's go you are this program off, you just gotta do it first. Frankly, do it, you'll feel it in it, then just skin it yourself and do it, I kinda don't care. I'm not really giving you permission, but there's nothing that I'm going to do to stop you. So keep that in mind, you pay me 400 bucks or run through this small fucker. And you can steal it all you want. If you got the you got the will,



John Fairbanks 1:16:41

yeah, that desire. And it's. So you could do that. And you could do this right with people all over the globe, because now you have the internet and click funnels, but it's or locally, your ability to now take local people that are in your communities, and then run them through this program first. Now, if you're talking about an actual sales sequence and process of pulling people up the ladder of what you do in your business, you can have a much more affordable option for people that are going to get results, you keep them in the most affordable option where they do not need to immediately jump into personal training, because the odds are the habits that they have are so dogshit right now anyway, that it would be like a frog right into boiling water and they're going to jump right out are going to be unsuccessful, or they're going to cancel because they sick or their dad died, or whatever it is they're gonna have all the reasons why they can't make the five times a week that they just bought your personal training package for or you start them here, they now have built all those habits and built all of this good momentum. And then at the end of the five weeks, you give them the opportunity because they've successfully done your program to then move into training with you now.



Tyler 1:17:51

Now you feel confident. Yeah, trust me, Your trust is the best access point, in my opinion, I would read and by the way, it seems the easiest. Find a gym. Like a good fit with us without working out, like good shape without losing weight, lose weight without working out, not a scammy way. But just like workouts hard. It can be intimidating. It doesn't need to be the way everyone who's in shape is in shape because they're eating. Everyone who looks good is eating at least a balanced amount of food with their overall activity. So like you can, you can lose weight without working out. And I've said before, like exercising is actually a really hard way to lose weight, in theory, because if you're already gaining weight, and have poor eating habits, lifting weights is going to make you feel good, but it's also going to make you hungrier. Oh yeah, so you're gonna have lots of conflict, conflicting signals and urges and cravings when you like, should just be eating less. And that's fucking tough. So this is, this is the way guys So listen, if you want to check the program out and I won't just like send it to you, because fuck off like, you can pay me and do it yourself. And then you can steal it. Me not saying that officially or giving you permission. But if you want to get a good idea of what it looks like, how it reads, how I deliver it, like go for him. Yeah, so dudes rock training blog. But the nutrition only version of it, I think is the training programs, right? The nutrition is the most special aspect of it, I think and it's it's that's what the real gem was in the program. And I think it's the most important thing for me to put as the centerpiece of the program. Because when I sell it as a training program, people think the training program is the juice and I need the juice and I need it. So thanks a lot for listening to everybody. Get out there make a frickin nutrition program that fits which you want the thing to be not the most ideal way to eat. This is where you guys get dorky and everybody sucks. Crafting a nutrition program is not about the best way to eat the best nutritional philosophy. It is what somebody's day one looks like. What are the things they need to know to feel the experience change from day one to day six? Even from day eight to be 16. From week three to week, four to week, five weeks, however you fall you want to do it, but you are crafting an experience, and a guideline and framework and a support system and entire ecosystem for somebody's success. If it's just what is it, fucking 6015 or whatever 4030 30 macros and with your, if you're teaching fucking all of that stuff, fine, but then you're going to shackle somebody to a lifetime of food scale nonsense, unless you can build a pathway to get them off of it. So if you're going to build a path to get them dependent on weighing everything that they eat, hopefully your second program is now here's to integrate this into your normal fucking life, which is viable as well. But just know that in the end, there needs to be a person that's able to go out there and do that thing in reality with a real life and a version of it, that's going to work for them for the long haul. craft that crafted and concepts start with just an outline. Don't worry about what it really needs to be in there. Because by the way, John, when I built this program, the last thing I added was what the foods are gonna be. It was I know of by the framework of you, but it was never like, oh, okay, I always know that it's eggs and then a half a potato for breakfast. That's all it's like metal. It's fucking it's close enough. It's easy enough. Who cares? If they don't like it? They can deal with it for a week. Because it's the dudes rock program. It's not the ladies complaining to me about their feelings about food programs, or snacks or me personally, or snacks. Yeah. I did have somebody ask me on the second day. Second, I don't even think it might have been the first day. So we're not allowed to have snacks, or anything like in between these meals? I said, No, you're not. " If that was the case, I would have said, " Eat within this quantity here. And then you know, snack, whatever the fuck you want in between what the fuck kind of question is I get? It's reasonable. But I was like, no, no, you certainly can't. And my response I got back was like, Well, I got so hungry. It's day one, buddy. Like I don't I this is not the day where I care about how you feel about being hungry. This isn't even the week where I care, it's the week where you only need to prove to me that you can do something that I wrote down. And until you can do that. Not a lot of sympathy here because you're not even trying if you're already trying to live outside the program. But these are things you're going to learn in your coaching. A lot of really great things about the psychology of weight loss when you do this, not just writing it up, writing it off, make you feel smart. Having people do it will make you feel enraged and have lost faith in humanity. slowly developing the system into something that really works and helps a lot of people will make you a real fucking professional with a real good product, and you have a really good understanding of how to help people going forward. So I'll make fun of the hiccups and hang ups and stuff that people have about it. But like, this is what makes me really well equipped when someone comes at me with some bullshit to know that it's bullshit. And then I got to know all I can't just snap at them all the time, because I'm ahead of it. So keep that in mind guys, develop your own program, get out there and start and if you have one fucking I don't know, like mess. If you come up with one from this show, like I'd love to hear when you launch it, how it's starting to go. Like, we'd love to hear this stuff. Our goal is to have tons of gym owners using the information that we are teaching here to try to get out there and help more end users. It's not about you just stuffing a bunch more members into your gym, so you can actually fuck and help people here. This conversation was not about leads. Numbers this month, but it certainly was how to make sure that if you follow this, this this episode, take it, take it to heart and really understand where nutrition needs to play a role in your business and your fitness business. You'll help so many more people that are already in your community to be so much more successful than they would be without it. And for that, that's John and I's life's work. So it's like this isn't a thing where we're just trying to stuff more people in your gym. This will get more people in your gym if you start really really helping people. But this is the way so thanks for listening, everybody go to gym owners revolution.com follow the show at the gym owners podcast on Instagram. Follow me at Tyler Elphinstone. That's Tyler eff ironstone and John,



John Fairbanks 1:24:10

you can follow me on Instagram at Jay banks f L John is just our longest episode today. I believe it is we're almost at



Tyler 1:24:16

It ran for 90 minutes or so. Alright, we'll see you guys later.